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I have Adam Shapiro and welcome to Fox Business dot com live.
Tracy -- and Cris Carter are pulling kind of double duty there hosting Fox Business -- 1 PM hour and so they've got to get ready for that so.
You got me and I hope in the next hour that'll be a good thing for everybody.
The Dow right now down 115.
Point you know in the last thirty minutes.
Really accelerated the pace of the sell off here this morning we were in negative territory all of this obviously.
Following the jobs report yesterday plus the CBO report which referred to the economic recovery being in the make.
And we thought sell off in Europe.
Most of us were waking up and now we are continuing -- sell -- Here in the middle of United States remember back in an election several years ago they kept saying it's the economy the economy.
We'll perhaps in the mid term election issue -- -- -- -- -- saying it's jobs jobs jobs jobs jobs we're going to be talking a lot about -- this hour.
Specifically because everybody keeps saying the sell -- we see now the problems of the economy it's all related to.
Jobs and we're not thinking about the you're talking about the kind of -- we get a paycheck.
Let's bring in art Hogan he is the director of global equity products at Jefferies & Company chief market that -- And if he can help explain some of what we're seeing right now are -- merely okay.
Yeah I sure can -- real I'm good thank you for joining us.
Is -- a rational explanation for the felt awkward days it is what it over -- -- parades it to the outside because of the earnings reports.
Or is it reacted to these bad jobs numbers another negative economic data.
Yeah that's got to that's good question I think you have to look at it this way so group there's two camps from investors right now with the group is going to get that clearly is.
Nervous about double that and a double -- guys by the fact that -- we have an economy that's got such.
Anemic pace of growth that we're creating new jobs and are concerned there is if you look at GDP and about 7% of -- he's driven by the consumer spending.
I -- you -- you get concerned that we're creating jobs at that unemployment level it's the other half live reporters.
-- -- -- -- -- for -- period of time it's very hard to have to have a self sustaining.
And economic recovery without the consumer -- and I think that's the biggest concern.
You have just hit upon in that answer three new issues don't wanna -- -- -- one -- -- talk about spending and possibly inflation or disinflation.
And it's but I wanna stick with -- jobs.
And where we're headed on that and and particularly a report that came out did not get a lot of attention.
But bureau -- labor statistics came out with a report on Wednesday.
That showed that it was small business and small business being defined as those who -- businesses which employ less than fifty people.
Greatest number of job losses occurring in that.
61% of the jobs we've lost I think it was in the fourth quarter.
Black -- came from small business it's small businesses the engine of this economy.
That sure seems to me what we're looking at there if that's continue win.
That we're headed for double debt that we're going back in -- recession.
Well we're really concerned right so and then this ticket one step further what is it with -- Small medium businesses need necessarily take two -- sent them to start hiring.
It on the larger and obviously we just heard from corporate record at this very circuit they've got a pilot -- have to look that the from the large.
-- side you think about the SP 500 well below that that small medium business that is the real core of the jobs creation in this country.
Needs some type of incentive in that in I would argue that with what's happening is they have they have they don't have access to credit to see.
The access to credit issues group.
Lies within the fact that we've we've rescued and -- these too big to fail banks and -- -- other pilot cash and not -- -- out especially the small medium businesses.
We hear time and time again as we sort of community service and talk to some useful medium businesses about what do you is holding back their growth and and -- -- -- beautiful.
Investing my way into play and equipment and and and getting new employees are important and that's that's quite simply stated just that -- the lack of access to credit I think that's one thing that we can think about it took a picture -- -- -- on the that this question in a all of these questions designed with the best reminded me a lot of people who were watching -- a whole lot we can do with our investments were stuck in -- one case -- it's about writing these kinds of -- now.
But -- you bring up credit.
I think it -- Federal Reserve just recently said that the banks the smaller banks in the regional banks are are indicating that they're lending standards certain things.
That seems to be -- actor.
One -- as we see it in small businesses which can't get their lines of credit extended -- that they can make able to they get paid.
You know a month later from a company that's having trouble getting money to pay him.
As we look at that land them on the regional and smaller banks.
Have -- exposure to commercial real estate and that's we're restarting its seed we're not starting we're seeing the default those strip malls in the overbuilding of those strip -- centers.
Now coming home to roost and and how -- these -- going to be able to land with capital standards requirements going up.
The default rates going up on their portfolios.
And the need for life.
That's that's a very good excellent point -- the bigger one step further and look at the you know every Friday were doing -- they -- regular resident Tony banks are failing those banks are -- right in that category -- that exact you know.
Regional small regional and community bank it's going out of business for those very reasons they're prepared they're good -- reserves.
Levels have to go up so if they keep it more -- default rates are going up a -- exact same time so.
That's key to the problem and I think -- a year ago.
You are talking about the second shoe to drop in this in this financial crisis and I think -- who -- -- -- commercial real estate that's the data regarding roads and it's.
Dropping as we speak.
That it it is so so let me wrap this up with a question to you so I'm watching the Dow fell law.
I'm a guy who stuck in -- 401K maybe -- a -- into the I've heard 11.
Naysayers say now 8500.
My heard one very optimistic person take out 121000 by the end of the year.
What do I do if -- that average -- stuck in the world.
Look at average Joseph I think you need to look at the composition of your holdings -- -- forward -- -- and -- think about.
You know the three things that you -- to be gearing yourself towards for the next twelve months once we can work and then what's gonna work is either.
And I -- our minds technology because it could be more -- -- activities so you know you probably own.
A handful of software companies who -- I was pretty taken out of had a -- -- Take carrier whole basket you can go and things that are related to the point the cycle or ads like these -- cycle industrials.
But I think that would best play right now is to look at your whole wouldn't say OK what -- companies are paying good dividends to I have AT&T doing Angel -- where -- -- You know in my holdings we have that are paying dividends that are at least a hundred if not two or 300 basis points more than I would get a ten year treasury.
I think to ride out the -- the next twelve months I think it's a safe bet that get large cap.
Dividend paying companies are going to be around for the last couple years if not for the next couple of decades that pay dividends that are that are a lot more than you get the treasury market.
Part of and I appreciate you talking with us we didn't even get to talk about the potential for deflationary spiral -- disinflation.
-- that's -- -- -- -- those of us wanted to take a lot of money but.
Again thank you for your insight and I hope that we can protect our investments.
Thank you have they care we'll be right back.
On the back -- Fox Business dot com live that down now down 109 point let's see if we can reverse this little bit about -- -- Chris.
-- usual lakers here like to talk about the good karma from this program and it usually turns the market around into positive territory don't know we knew that but we can probably recover some losses.
-- talking about losses both political parties trying to avoid losses in November with the midterm election.
Rejected is down in Asheville, North Carolina he's focusing on -- race which some people say could help decide who played -- pulled out -- representatives.
Good morning or I get to this point afternoon mr.
and it's what it would have course.
Adam -- coolest things happen like two minutes ago.
So I'm looking in my left and I see a gray line bus tour of Asheville, North Carolina you know gray -- was down here giving -- a look on the bus.
Fox News senate producer Trish turner is vacationing here on the gray line but still -- -- a it is this strangest thing I made.
We're so she's here vacationing -- we're here talking about north Carolina's.
Levin's congressional district -- -- -- get into that now Democrats.
If they lose 39 seats in November they lose control of the House of Representatives and one of the district Republicans are gunning for -- this district.
He has voted.
For governor bush for president in 2000.
President Bush in 2004 to be reelected and Senator John McCain.
QB president in 2008 however they do have a two term democratic congressman.
In the city -- -- we are right now it's a pretty liberal leaning type city we just went to a green coffee shop here with what biodegradable.
Water bottles and free trade coffee everywhere.
-- you move outside of the city in this.
This district does take on a very conservative tone when you move -- out of the city area so it's an interesting spot.
It's one that Republicans with a lump of taken -- these are the types.
-- districts that Republicans are going to have to take if they're going to take congress the polls are all over the map right now more conservative -- say it's neck and neck neck.
Other polls and in other forecasts say this is going to likely lean democratic so.
Very interesting case here and -- and our senate producer was here which is -- property interest I don't know if that means she needs to take more exotic places for vacation but let let me -- -- -- So you went to the green coffee shop I wouldn't I got I'm gonna make terrible stereotypical assumptions about the kind of people who go there but.
Did you talk to them that they say anything about where they really needed to be you know I know it's it's awkward go to build a -- we've got to vote for but did you.
Might be off with both.
And and I'm I'm not trying to perpetuate stereotypes hi there were a lot of tie dyed shirts and maybe uniter and all.
But you know it -- -- there and and the thing is especially for liberals and can you talk to folks down here those fuel pool aren't liberals and who have voted for Heath Shuler in the past.
Keep me he didn't win.
His primary he had a bit of a challenge in it though.
Because he has very unique voting record and it's one that's that's sort of emblematic of where he represents you know.
He has voted against the health care bill.
He voted against the stimulus bill bill he voted against heart however I he voted with his party -- with leadership.
On -- the cap and trade bill he's also voted for of -- handful of of priorities -- that financial regulatory reform bill.
That's another issue in which he stuck with -- party so.
He's been on both sides of his party in this in his four years in congress here and so.
Liberals are a little disappointed in that like to see about a little more consistency they would like to see -- step up and vote for health care.
I'll put you know he does represent the district it does have a conservative streak -- its very moderate.
I and it's almost emblematic of the district that worried -- really plays both sides here relatives and your photographer -- again or is my team.
We got martini right here -- without a Yankee hat up.
Sunglasses looking real cool in the sun -- give him a shout out for me say hello -- that's been reporting for us live in the middle of the granola.
Believe that the -- the green coffee shop at Nashville.
Leo review the -- in the name donor they you can't -- reports we've got today on Fox Business Network mr.
-- thank you very much.
I believe now that -- talk about this story it's kind of quiet Friday despite the sell off that that it's August volatility but it's also very light.
I mean let's face it volume right now it's so light that things again blown out of proportion.
But something that did catch my -- that should get a lot of attention.
For them is that I can't what's the famous -- her -- India is going through the toilet -- scandal.
The Indian nation will will be hosting the commonwealth games in October they won the right -- host commonwealth game in 2003.
They thought it would cost 500 million dollars -- they're building stadiums and they're preparing for thousands upon thousands of athletes from all over what used to be against the British colonies.
They kind to have some cost overruns for half billion so far and counting.
All kinds of criticism about this but one of the things that's been criticized you know we thought we had a bad in the United States back in the -- the eighties with what was it -- -- dollar toilet seat for the airport.
They're paying eighty dollars a role for toilet paper that's the scandal now this isn't a nation despite its incredible economic growth.
Where the average person is still -- this -- on two dollars a day.
Or roll of toilet papers so that story -- my I'd Google it if the India toilet paper's scandal as we approach the commonwealth games.
And they're probably all kinds of jokes that via late night comedians will happen that one but we won't go there because it's the lunch hour we don't want to grow out.
I believe we are going to go to -- Mike Tobin at this point.
Mike Tobin is joining us he is live in Lansing Illinois.
And this is that something that all of that they could do because most of us.
I believe -- they can pump warm weather scrambled or any faith NN that -- nationwide egg recall.
Has a lot of attention right now with the latest.
Well the latest is accidentally go back with the -- big here.
Normally one in 101000 -- is contaminating.
All the FDA can tell you right now as it's currently more than.
The only way to be sure that you're eating -- -- that's not contaminated if you -- I.
This is one of the few -- in the country that doesn't egg after his nation now you say you're looking at the -- right now that have already been through the most important part of the process.
The process is pretty much -- -- with the -- in hot water little hotter than a jacuzzi.
The loyalty a lot of hot enough to kill all of the bacteria can.
So they go through that this is where they've been drive -- got sprayed with paraffin -- with a -- and hermetically sealed but what you want to look for the store to make sure you're eating unpasteurized day -- that red stamp with a beyond it.
-- a final over the red stamp -- the beyond you know it's Salmonella free it's free of all the rest of the bacteria.
And that said it's dangerous stuff that -- actually get a Salmonella can be a contaminated egg in your kitchen.
Because by the time you crack -- -- thank you -- you get if you -- tonight you've contaminated the whole picture.
Now that you and I generally healthy individuals if we'd get Salmonella tainted egg probably -- gonna get some stomach upset that kind of stuff.
What happened that he wouldn't want to really talk about.
In the air if you -- -- elderly someone young someone sick gets a hold one of those bad egg thing you're talking about a very serious life threatening.
If you cook it thoroughly depends how you look at if you hard -- your bag -- New York just fired.
That means it got hot and -- 140 degrees and kill the Salmonella if you've got a -- yell if there's any of the white stuff which -- -- on top of the eggs anyway.
Any of the white stuff out of the running -- that's when it's dangerous that pretty much the egg whites now anyway -- -- -- and I analyzed my metabolism my -- stuff.
So it's not a big problem -- you know for the for the way -- -- But a lot of people my dad liked the runny eggs and he's got a lot -- -- got a couple years.
Need to be lucky.
Role in our -- don't appreciate the fact that we're that that you're doing the right thing and we're not I now feel guilty.
They go ahead and go ahead make your egg jokes people of American man we all day -- -- jokes I've heard -- -- there's bad -- exceptional.
Lineup if you're ecstatic about it.
-- -- -- eighties is up next with some of my -- sarcasm she is standing by on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange and when we come back.
When we come back we will speak with -- And welcome back to Fox Business live dot com before we get going -- -- take a look.
What's happening with the we we were in negative territory this morning and then.
All of a sudden about an hour ago me 45 minutes of -- we went over one.
We're down 116117.
Right now a lot of this had to do with the fact that most of the traders are on vacation.
Maybe there that thought patterns -- on -- -- About that night.
August volume is never that happy and right now people are worried about the jobs report we got last week airline yesterday.
Initial claims up to 500001.
Time -- but it was also that CBO report which is on line I think we might have posted about that.
In which they actually referred to the US economy several years being in Munich they talk about all kinds of the national debt as well as the end of deficit.
So if you're looking for some light happy reading warm and Fuzzy.
Don't -- the CBO report.
But nothing that won't ruin your weekend the discussion with Barr McClellan -- made in the USA he's joining us live right now thank you for being on foxbusiness.com.
That he considered a privilege I I considered very lucky that you're here because I don't know I can talk by myself very well.
They can -- you are big on.
Not buying a Chinese made product or not buying although I'm not sure what products we make in India so much of the services we buy and yet but to -- in the United States.
In the in 1980s message to look forward the made in the USA label but we still make it how do you do it go back all the way it's.
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- What where when you look at the statistics because you know I've been fed on a diet.
It's OK to lose.
Some of these manufacturing jobs that we used to have.
Because we can do it much more efficiently and much less expensively.
In other countries like Vietnam China India.
And that as we lose those jobs the people who would have had to -- in the United States.
Get new skills and and do something more productive that -- them more money sounds to me that that diet I was fed was pretty bad guy.
And it's all.
You back there and in my view my what -- workers.
-- -- the deficit is not the deficit and let it be much better.
We even know where we tell you about the deficit -- at the trade imbalance let's look at the driver because I think a lot of us it's pretty basic trade imbalances we we.
Pay more money to import stuff than we are export.
We we we we have a negative.
In that that accounts that we have a deficit what how does that impact the economy as a whole.
You know -- -- Look what we've seen is that.
If you look at the deficit in the report in -- why aren't they more.
I won't -- People if you believe.
-- system but I do have to say.
When he did hit that trillion.
Did the deficit I I I don't remember that number it wasn't a lot of that driven by Danny Kaye included in -- deficit number.
Oil and oil skyrocketed.
-- the price of oil skyrocketed in no way commodities.
You know we export a great deal wheat and corn but we also imports and stuff.
And high commodity prices shot wasn't that doesn't excuse the trade imbalance numbers -- people's -- okay.
-- -- -- -- yourself more hopefully that.
All over it.
And now when when you talk about manufacturing the United States he tell you about it so that we just -- that the switch back on and being effective I got -- and an example a buddy of mine.
People might know the shoe company I don't know if I can say the -- but.
He and his family for several years for decades he's their generation.
Had made a certain kind issue and they're now the only maker of these -- there orthopedic shoes.
In the United States and you know that whole -- just gone just does -- -- to start right back up.
Yeah there are right back up but a lot of -- there all.
Did camp but if you -- We'll tell me what -- I'd be curious what you have made an American working and you know it -- Yeah I'd tell you make you can -- -- that I hope I can -- one good -- -- made mistakes.
There are overseas they come back what are the combat.
I won't do business here a lot of them go through what a lot of people.
-- -- It would be if you believe -- it services that.
Dell computer and new balance -- -- -- issues.
Oasis mission here right here in the united.
-- All the blocks that and then make the little kids like the upper level I want my.
And get active -- zone or.
And even in New York City with my.
It's -- a New York City.
-- pig and you can love wearing a suit actually am very proud of the fact that is made in the United States.
There is still a company that that assembles it suits in the USA.
The heart kept remarks is one of so I've got to let -- -- at this point before McClellan the messages look for the USA label and it will do world of good here.
All right -- -- and thank you thank you very much.
And I believe we're not taking a break we're gonna move -- Stephen -- with either an economic professors think -- university.
We -- by Skype and -- it to you -- that way you can hear me I can -- you how you doing today I'm doing very well.
We we just.
Discussion with the author.
The book made in the USA.
Who's making an argument as to why we who'd be purchasing -- trying to purchase products -- built in manufactured here in the good old United States.
To help this economy any thoughts on that before we died in the from the attitude -- talk about you well.
It it is related to the other issues I think you know this idea that we have to buying the US to help US economy is just crazy the best thing we can do right now three US consumers.
To be able to spend their hard earned money on products they're happy with at prices they're happy with an imported products are cheaper that -- US consumers have money left over to spend on more products some made in America some not and the trade deficits really -- -- adjusted.
Not something we need to worry about all that reflects.
Is the fact that -- more happy with -- -- -- other countries than did a narrow and -- And and those dollars we spend overseas come back to -- -- investment and are also.
In fact do you make an argument -- the job destruction that takes place in a healthy economy is necessary.
We keep hearing government talking about saving job saving jobs but that's actually.
See you I don't want to hurt people's feelings but it's counter and counter productive to what needs to happen that would just that.
-- I didn't help the economy healthy economy destroy -- -- example that I use in recent article is telephone operators and telephone operators anymore.
We do it -- -- -- -- -- speak and a language I don't understand when to call them because -- -- -- other -- or computerized right which is part of what we we didn't we don't have women is mostly women doing those jobs and more good job to disappear we didn't see and that's good why's that could we progressed we've got computers and other equipment doing that network now and then jobs and help create we haven't got -- cell -- cell phones and -- people need to write those programs people -- -- -- help us.
So by destroying jobs that we -- by by creating situations we can get the same thing done better creative there's less labor creative destruction that's.
-- but that era and I'm gonna take this argument because I had part of me intellectually is 100% review.
But how do you take with you you're you're telephone operator.
You know ma bell -- called the state typical operator -- them.
He's he's a lovely person she's forty years old and she no longer has a job and she's not gonna go writing applications tomorrow.
Right right -- transition that person who's now had their job creatively destroyed back into a healthy productive position.
I think that's that's really important challenge and it's one of the reasons why things like education and having a life of the skills and you went in the job market are important having basic skills as well.
The fact is we do we're never gonna stop that kind of change and people who face the situation the telephone operators face or go back a generation to people who were working on farms based.
They found ways to transition into the new kinds -- That would been bad it's bad transition and we went from a green decided -- 40% of our population and about 19100 on the farm to 2% today.
That took 100 years that it happened overnight we've got fourteen plus million people out of work who aren't gonna they don't have a hundred years they got to feed the -- tonight and it.
And it's important to distinguish I think jobs that are destroyed by hello -- healthy -- it's where we started right when.
When progress happens when we see things like cell phones and digital -- is replacing operator that's one kind of thing.
Where we are today -- unemployment that's been created under a whole other set of circumstances.
And that's all the various ways in which the Federal Reserve and federal housing policy contributed to the boom -- now the -- that weren't.
And so I think weren't really different situation today not a situation we're seeing this ongoing transition but this sort of sharp increase in the unemployment rate and and that I think is a different but we'll beat that to them.
I'm gonna bring this back to you we have lots of important discussions.
There intellectual discussions now let's have the real world part of that.
You and I have jobs it is easy for us to say we need creative destruction.
And it will help this economy in the long run but we don't you know the long run is not an option for millions of Americans who have to deal with -- -- and now today.
Right and I -- the -- get people what do you do for them.
Well I think it again in the situation we're talking about today when we're with Portland -- -- -- 141000009 and a half percent unemployment I think there we've got to get.
We've got to get government out of the way to enable private investors to -- to resume.
Having that kind of global confidence in the economy where they're willing to invest and create jobs.
-- -- Zigzag and you policy that we've seen the uncertainty about what the Fed's gonna do about my administration's gonna do all these kind of things the private investors say look I don't want to do anything.
Until I'm better sense of what's gonna happen next and and by the uncertainty over extending the bush tax cuts always are sort of thing.
So the community the best thing we can do for workers right now is to get.
Well business owners -- homeowners back in the ball game and creating those jobs that that those workers can -- You know there was.
This little want to keep that everybody can read -- Eric rose -- Federal Reserve Bank president out of Boston in 2008 -- -- paper that I was was to read.
But he made the argument as to why would be better.
To get through this how did this economy has really suffered lobby of the housing crash.
You get through that housing correction as painful as it is as quickly as possible you -- don't.
Take the kind of steps we've taken to prevent the -- the correction.
It will be horribly painful but we'll get to a faster and it seems that -- read that paper because we're taking all these steps to lead delay and prolong that and it's just thankful.
Exactly and the history is before we had you know stimulus programs and all these attempts to attitude to blue route to ease the pain particularly to ease the pain.
On the corporate side we have recessions and depressions but they were sure they were steep but they were very short and the correction.
The return to growth happen very quickly.
What we're seeing today as there is in some ways I don't want -- over draw the analogy.
But in some ways -- soft small version of what we saw in 1930s where we took what would listen Peter Crouch by in 1929.
An extended out for over a decade through policy mistakes mistakes by the Federal Reserve and so forth and that's what worries me today is that you know we we're we -- fourteen million unemployed people Pascual they can get jobs if we just may get the right policy.
-- still allow that to happen says so the last word I'm gonna give it to you when you have all of thirty seconds.
What's most important thing right now that that congress -- the administration could do.
I think well two things one extend the bush tax cuts and I don't -- temporary suspension payroll tax to get people back to work.
Let let firms reduce the cost of hiring firms for years let them get some people back to work you'll see the revenues grow as those he comes through all of those would be I think the most important things -- like -- you right now.
All right at the economist Steven Horwitz joining us from a saint Lawrence University thank you very much via Skype appreciate the discussion -- that -- back on another day.
Thank -- happy that.
Are we taking a break.
We're going to take a break and I'm gonna have to walk off.
Well I don't know if it's cause for celebration but we have gone back into double digits from mark along.
This celebrating it was with.
We're down 99 points which is a lot better than I think we we started this program and a hundred -- it.
So all right let's hope we can keep the that the trend going in the right direction.
Joining us now.
-- Mike -- from Seattle corrected I get that right there.
You got that right thanks they throw me on the show -- partner and co chair of the -- Dorsey and Whitney labor and employment practice and I want -- talking about some of the mistakes that companies -- lately things they need to know.
When they hire independent contractors -- that I want as your personal question about that because I used to be quote.
An independent contractor when I worked for the evil empire across the street and other broadcast.
And I had no benefits.
So -- so first what are the things that evil empire across the street needs a note to protect them from someone like me the private contract.
Well I think you know one of the key issues we see adversity when you -- clients is that.
Often in down economies there's a tendency towards engaging more people and threw -- independent contractor type relationship rather than as employees.
And also willingness of people to to perform that service not we're under employment umbrella.
And it went in particular when companies go outside of the jurisdictions that they're familiar with and have people from different states.
The -- really very substantially by its jurisdiction.
And it can create real -- for on where companies and and -- employees to.
Let's talk about -- past let's say hypothetical -- I'm not working let's say hypothetically around 2000 hypothetically hypothetically.
I go to work even -- -- I -- in Cleveland Ohio.
Let's say hypothetically I go to work for and BC toward the local TV affiliate in new York and hypothetically.
I'm independent contractor for them and hypothetically I get into one of their vehicles and hypothetically I crash that vehicle.
Only part of that hypothetical by the way it's true.
What's the danger to them.
I got a lot of guys -- fidelity.
It's just like them on the phone with one of my friends with a hypothetical problem.
You the it's.
Did the short answer is who was really different.
-- it would apply to you if if we were an employee then you'd be covered under workers compensation.
If that trip we're covered you know we put as part of your employment.
If you're an independent contractor then you really would undertake all the risk and at the same time too whether you would have a right against the company.
Would vary a lot by jurisdiction to do so for example in some jurisdictions you have you would not necessarily have a right in some jurisdictions you weren't so it really varies a lot.
Halo let's get real about it though because I -- work over at that that local board and I was that quote independent that we -- -- called her Milan but potentially depending on.
If -- a small business in this economic downturn my options are less than they were when the economy stronger -- I made.
I'm probably going to be hiring freelancers are independent contractors what do I need to do to make sure that those people don't have some kind of -- -- for me if something should -- -- Well I think the first thing is really paying attention to.
What the law requires to maintain that level of independence and there's two key things to remember.
The first thing is that the federal law which applies to everybody says that an employee an individual worker is is not an employee if the company.
Does not take any -- Right to control the -- or method in which that person's work is performed so that would be a true independent contractor situation if that's small business that you're talking about went out and try to control all the time work the place of work with the -- of the person didn't how -- perform the job.
Then even if they had a contract that said independent contractor freelance -- or anything like that.
Then the -- still gonna go through that agreement.
And say that that that -- worker was in fact an employee and with all the rights and and benefits that would be attenuated -- Counselor point of clarification what I hear you say sure -- -- small business owner.
And I hired independent contractor I need to be hands off as opposed to hands on to protect myself.
That's absolutely right and then the second point Adam is that is even in a situation where your hands off in some jurisdictions a -- -- obviously California.
They will go through that -- control test and -- just doesn't matter practical economic reality.
Is this person this independent contractor performing all there were.
Or substantially all their work for one entity in which case because of the economic reality of the situation.
The worker could be seen to be an employee and so you have to be careful too about not just the agreement that's reached and how you act with that person.
But also how that relationship evolves over time.
I wish I had known you into the house.
Not gonna ask questions from the independent contractor side.
I just heard you say something okay this thing.
If the the company hiring media independent contractor.
Controls the manner of delivery or the timing by which I do what it is they've hired me to do that.
In this does that essentially make Null and void my independent contractors that.
They absolutely can.
There are situations where for example a company can -- -- performance expectations so for example we need a particular type of financial services software or other product by deadline.
And setting it prevented production or.
Response deadlines is acceptable.
To stay independent contractor status.
The more that there is a restriction on the timing of performance when the performances to be done -- to be done with what tools and life.
Then too much greater extent the worker could be converted into an employee.
Right one last question for you that this is there a simple place I can go on either -- independent contractor.
-- the business person needs to hire an independent contractor to review.
-- issues that I better be aware of before I get into the field.
Sure there's there are obviously many web sites that are available but one of the once it's really I find extremely helpful is actually the IRS's web site.
And IRS dot GOV.
You were typing I know exactly.
If you type in the word independent contractor in their search feature comes up with a variety of different articles that provide helpful examples both for the worker and also for the company.
And at least and you know what you're up against yes -- -- -- he comes looking for him.
Might strike again I wish I had known in 2000 thing I did not make the car when -- -- The fire.
I did however I managed to record whose vehicle that I when I first started on this industry -- -- years ago but I was fully employed.
And I had managed in a park where.
Well I'm glad we're glad you're feeling better now our next discussion will be about statutes of limitation.
Thank you get for having me on the show I really -- I think I'd say I don't think WW -- -- -- sodas coming after me after twenty years.
At it now.
-- -- -- I'd like to -- her all the best to you -- Believe we're taking a break and then we'll go to join Orlando Salinas -- not going to take a break he's right there in Miami Florida -- -- you know that.
Salinas and I did work together in Cleveland Ohio we did.
We sure did good gosh and that goes back what eleven years because -- -- it goes back -- -- goes back to in the Cleveland Indians were good.
Hey hey look you're hitting Iran had -- We're gonna talk -- they -- about.
If there's something called a micro -- distillery but these are folks these are.
Average folks who have decided to know what they understand they want to learn more about the craft of making their own which he.
A look at him forever people of -- make of their own beer you make your own wind but try making your own hard liquor in your home.
Without a license or permit you're gonna find yourself in trouble with the law but about we could go -- -- spent I know 456 hours.
With just one coupled out of you what to -- -- -- opening to say it's a Central Florida.
And these folks they started about six months ago -- -- months ago.
And they -- order to make their own whiskey.
They make it inside a boring it's clean -- they spend a good 1112 hours a day making their very own whiskey.
Got a package for you add an Interpol to you -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- A husband and wife are making with nothing to hide tanks here just -- sixty gallon copper still some fire some grains and stacks of wooden barrels.
Only 200 small companies in America our life is to still their own spirits.
Palm bridge reserve -- is one of them and it's trying to break into the market.
Our sales have steadily increased on a monthly basis.
We've been very fortunate where are -- what we need him to be here right now no they're not.
Private distillers go through a series of strict federal and state permits and must keep meticulous records.
And in taste and taste and taste again.
All of the -- cuts are made by taste me and yelled venues just stand by the still -- with him coming off the still.
And when it's good I keep it.
He -- sure there was he's right.
While Morgan fills up the fifty dollar bond.
Twelve hour days eventually dripping out fifteen gallons of Florida spirits a weak part -- it seems to be catching all.
From them about the year 2002001.
There -- maybe two -- craft distillers to well over 200.
And I think if you checked with the government you would see that there are lots more licenses in the pipeline.
-- Dick and -- waters these folks are real mom and pop separate operation -- -- They are hoping that by year's end and they will be able to sell about 500 gallons of their Palmer ridge reserve whiskey that's what -- -- for.
This is not a fad at a -- when he did historically elevated this is just sort of -- back.
-- -- -- -- These folks have pretty much sunk their entire savings into this just to get one permit in the state of Florida.
Is at least 4000 dollars the federal permit.
Not quite so much at all the -- this state permit that's really gonna sock -- TA your wall or read your purse up at.
Yeah only limit in this real quick question about all this as I can remember a few decades ago when -- -- -- breweries can work and yeah I've had now they aren't certain.
They're big part of the beer business.
In regard to this though I don't know if anyone -- to leave you with his distant.
Licensing at the state and federal level but a holdover from.
When we have a -- -- -- yesterday a -- that the Republican -- you don't even handed and is there any move to may be.
-- at all of that.
You know your history.
Adam you're exactly right it is a holdover it's part of a hole probably should think it.
A lot yeah you know what that we we we spoke about that a little bit both the -- waters and myself and he was saying look over the past few years.
The different state agencies that regulate regulate liquor in your state they have loosened up a little bit and they -- he told me they seem to be a little bit more friendly to false wanna get into the business.
-- again you have to be meticulous he -- just go and -- start make you wish you well.
I guess you could if you get caught it somebody -- -- out you're gonna be trouble with the law but all in all look its meticulous this guy I was making notes on his no -- Had there but that's how he does it it's inside a barn we didn't taste great.
We will we would have NASCAR I think without the moon diners back in.
In fact yes this is out.
But let me I had I guess part of the reason it is I really like to think -- you can do some damage if the alcohol content is too great.
I mean people get into trouble.
Sure they can't and you know what this stuff comes out about 140 proof.
But they they go ahead -- -- -- it on down to look comes up about 4550 proof in the bottle.
They say the big difference between their whiskey and some other stuff is theirs they like to have this gravy flavor I tested it two or three.
Or if our congress that in -- and all our remember it is and it was good stuff.
There you go -- right -- I had -- can you buy -- -- -- I I would think that by now online ready by -- -- night I can't bottom line.
Yet you can't northern Florida is the only place that you can get it right now these bolts addicted Marty waters they have a distributor ship.
And -- right now only can get it in north Florida they're hoping within the next week or so -- going to be able to get needed to South Florida.
But as far as online and not right now there are -- whole bin vets those rules will be a little -- he's up a little bit.
Palin -- we have got to look to go with the only place to -- -- my body or that may get that means that the road trip down I ninety yeah I've had the we're in we'll stop at a Stuckey is on the way.
And -- the -- thank you very much you do it.
Like take a break.
And then we'll be right back.
Welcome back to foxbusiness.com.
Live edition 1247.
And we're back down a 105 points on the Dow Jones Industrial Average.
I guess a lot of people expected we have the selloff today Europe's hold off we pulled off yesterday about his job all businesses and public jobs would -- small business.
Which seems to have -- -- plan to help get you profitable and do well.
Foxbusiness.com thank you for joining us here.
I hero welcome glad to be here and I when I saw the topic my producer emailed this to me about the virtual office I was glad to see it because Tim Thibodeau thinking what -- happened all those promises in the 1990s.
That email and those big bulky than cellular phones would get rid of all the paperwork and make life easier I guess.
That never happened.
I know it's gonna come true right now I think with all the convergence of both the technologies and what people are trying to do with -- now is the right time.
That so so what's about to happen in the market and had a I take advantage of that if I was small business.
What we see is we see more more people wanting to be available to do work anytime anywhere.
And that means being able to close a deal that means being able to act as satisfy an angry customers that means doing whatever you gotta do to keep your business moving.
-- -- -- to do it on the road be able to do it up at home be able to do it that midnight whatever you gotta do to run your business you're gonna do it and I think.
The keep me up at night and thank you very much for not letting me get any rest.
And now it's really about giving you choice is not about working all the time but it's about giving you the optional I've gone -- to -- -- had a fifth literally got.
I'm without the main one that we we've launched over number of years it's called.
Faxes aren't as sexy as they used to be but they really still drive the -- baseball small businesses get stuff done.
The reason for contracts and leases and all kinds of important transactional documents videos -- -- really the way company moves money in and out.
And -- but people don't fax machines and I understand why and so what we do is we allow someone to pick a fax number from anyone -- 48.
I think we have 4000 cities and our network you get a fax number instantly anybody who sends -- facts to that fax number -- it ends up in your email -- an attachment.
But so it'll ask you to do do the things got to do the business do -- -- a contract.
But you can be on your Smartphone and you can open that the contract you can be on your notebook at home.
You can be -- -- kiosk and they in a hotel you can be anywhere in you have access to a facts not just wherever it was sent originally and forgive my ignorance but I come from the era where we learned to read Libya selling Dick and Jane -- But -- could maybe still that would email and do all of that unless Smart phone and bypass the fact aspect of this hook up hook and.
Some things have moved beyond facts and I think that's the normal some of the documents that fire -- but if you really think about it.
If you get a contract and you need to print it out and -- sign it.
-- is really the best way to send it back the same thing's true with registration forms and with POs and invoices that need to be circulated and -- -- Fact is still really important not just for that we dated Monday communications but the real transactional stuff that -- the business is still -- -- facts.
At all any facts let's say the document the contract -- sent to me can if I have application on my Smart device I can sign.
On this device in the appropriate spot on the -- on document within the -- and then -- it back.
Yeah I think the key is that you're able to open it up wherever you are you're able to forward it as any not a great thing for example on a contract.
Somebody send did you realize your legal department -- to look at it instead of being stuck with a piece of paper you just for the email along.
Plus then we have tools for -- -- to be able find it virtually so you don't have to print it out to build a sign it.
And keep it moving so essentially you can have a a contract come in and go out and never after credit -- you also have -- product eve Boyd.
What what is the eve -- You -- -- the same role but on the phone side.
If you've ever worked at large company you've had the luxury of having a pretty slick phone system behind you calls come -- they get answered with a nice greeting you've reached -- accounting firm.
I you can hear menus if you wanna talk its own -- press this if you wanted look up to me by name press this.
And what people find is -- -- golf and start on their own they don't get that.
And so they you have to run by phone line from the phone company and it's still kind of a dead phone line are they got to start given -- their their cell phone number to run their business which kinda loses some privacy.
What he -- guys is it gives -- a phone number they can use as your business number.
You sign up for it again just like defects -- it works instantly and you can program had to give her -- -- greeting just like the big guys do.
You can route phone calls to different extensions you can -- -- ring your cell phone you can ever bring you're you're on your home phone or office on whatever you want.
You can have the voice mails that get left for you translated into text messages and email to see you can read -- -- -- -- home.
It essentially gives you all the great stuff that a huge company phone system gives you but you can have it hasn't won one person shot and you can sign up for immediately.
It felt like what -- you've taken you know you can rent office based on a floor in a building where is.
100 other on -- all sharing a fact and all of that concept sounds to me like what you've done is taken that concept to that next evolution.
He kind of virtual office and save me the small business guy heck of a lot of money.
How much would it cost me to take advantage of what you got up.
I'm the facts services that are -- for services 69 -- five month again you can turn on instantly didn't get a thirty day trial that is to kick the tires and see if you like it.
And then 1695 -- -- that you voice services 1295 month.
That was new and we're really trying to get people to try because when they -- they love it so that -- a six month free trial.
So our real goal is when people use these things they go nuts and allows him again to do business when they -- not all the time but when they want to.
From where they want to and so we price them low you can buy and you can check out when you're done the nice thing is an -- really easy to ramp up a very professional business.
Without having to to buy hardware have an IT guy all that stuff that nobody wanted it.
And as we wrap up by I think even if I'm established and not the small business person but I could well -- you know from a larger business I could save some money perhaps by going yard -- and opposed to constantly upgrading the phone system.
And having to call the IT guys into all that.
Oh absolutely as an example our smallest customer might be a guy running an eBay business on the side.
But we have corporations with tens of thousands of users using our services.
So they're really not just about the virtual office for the ones and -- -- folks those it's very it's great for them.
On the other hand if you look at normal people running their business even people working and big companies now have to have virtual offices when they're on the road when they're sneaking -- to one of their kids' soccer games when their home.
So this stuff really works well for anybody trying to run a business on -- today is always and everywhere type scenario.
He's -- I was just -- on my coffee not on the idea that I'm going to be working 24 hours today along with the rest of my country.
Unlike you we wish you the best.
12 you throw in the web -- to people and find it.
Yet WW -- facts dot com and the same WW debate that you voice dot com and you can find all the stuff there.
Right there all the best you mr.
Pugh end we'll take -- -- six months the other you don't.
Thank you very much be well we wrap up.
There's a couple of things housekeeping we're still hovering in that hundred.
Range were down 99 points on the Dow and not pretty but not ugly -- it's Friday it's a Good Friday coming up on Fox Business Network -- -- we have a graphic.
Did you have excuse me excuse me I'm really coming up on the strategy room -- is.
I'm not even gonna go there but I'm sure there -- a lot of questions that you could ask mr.
Lee famous rock and roller and you didn't pan handle with a Pamela.
Yeah created married Pamela Anderson long time ago and I'm digging myself a hole which I can't get out of so we're not -- -- talk about Tommy -- anymore.
But watching them -- strategy room next that does it.
We will see you on Monday but it won't be me you get crazy and creates -- -- -- respect.
And maybe -- maybe -- -- them again anyway Q -- folks.
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