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A Baltimore man has been arrested in connection with alleged plot to bomb a military recruiting center in Maryland the 21 year old American Muslim convert -- Martinez also known as.
Was being tracked by undercover FBI agents who provided him with a fake bomb in the lead up to his arrest in the -- -- kind of similar to that of the Portland -- bomber was.
Now accusing the FBI of entrapment.
So is the government guilty of enticing folks to commit mass murderer debate on this now.
Two -- McCartney is a former federal prosecutor and mark -- areas of political science professor at UCLA gentlemen great to see you both mark.
First you do you buy the entrapment defense of these folks.
I mean that have to look into it I mean that there have been issues.
We have the government isn't encouraging people and telling them.
You don't even radicalized and -- that would be a problem but it's hard to tell me look we have an adversarial legal system and and people have to come out with a defense when -- Caught red handed with the bombing you're gonna explode it's you have to say something.
Sure but did that the point is very handy that people have come up -- this defense and the guy in Portland Mohammed was -- smile on Mohamad.
Has said that it was entrapment.
But can a person be entrapped to commit mass murder now.
Part of that it's totally unreasonable and that's why the defense.
Which -- been raised any number of times -- last seventeen years and terrorism cases they think is batting.
Right it's just common sense tells you that no normal person can be enticed.
Into committing mass -- -- a lot of let me just point out though what Andy you know this very well liked the fact that it hasn't succeeded doesn't necessary mean it won't eventually succeed may be some -- Entrapment for this will succeed now it won't succeed because it's not a legal issue with the common sense issue.
When a prosecute -- -- -- -- -- -- it common sense is so common in our courts as well because it unlike just having federal judges we actually have jurors who -- normal people and when you look at jury in the eye and say what would it take to entice you to -- 1020000.
They they sort of scratch their heads and say yeah that's right that's crazy.
-- right now -- what the FBI does -- put together this kind of rule book to to avoid the entrapment defense and what they what they do when they deal with these potential perpetrators is is they give them an option they say look.
On the one hand I can help you make posters that you can hang up outside the UN on the other hand I can help you make bombs if you want to bomb the UN which would you like to do is that enough is the FBI doing enough to avoid -- And I mean if that's what they're doing that's fine -- but let's go back in history I mean this comes out.
FBI's counterintelligence program.
Where they were actively in -- training and developing conflicts between different kinds of organizations that sometimes lead to people being shot and killed.
And they were they where they were sending out threatening letters and things -- -- that were encouraging people to get into certain kind of accomplishment ended up being violent.
So we figures say -- this entrapment and that was illegal.
Yet it was illegal and and they were congressional hearings have battled out a second -- -- not only -- and I didn't have anything to do with entrapment where it had to do with was whether what the FBI was doing was done without the normal court process is both on entrapment case.
So wasn't exactly trap when they were there were found to be wrong because of the fact that they did some other things -- were wrong mark.
-- They were creating the cry and they were good they were creating crimes and otherwise -- still happen.
By infiltrating organizations and end up that technically entrapment it is it's it's -- -- the same team which is.
Are you getting people to do things that they otherwise wouldn't do and I guess.
If they're giving them an option and being very clear that there had been that and then that's a clear line but then -- -- could think of some things of that that might be Fuzzy in terms of in terms of if there actually sort of if you actually had like the FBI setting up a radical mosque in recruiting people to come there.
And -- encouraging them to have to go out bomb things and and that when they do do when they do make an attempt decided to arrest them that would clearly be on the other side of the lie to you agree and it.
Now the -- what happened in in the Cohen tell pro exactly investigation involved for which one is -- that's the one from the sixties and seventies that I take him to be talking about.
Bill -- for example was not prosecuted because of that in his own words he's guilty -- So it that this is not a situation where the FBI created the crime.
It's a situation where the crime couldn't be prosecuted because the way they collected the evidence violated the law so.
And mark are these guys are if you are these guys it is not easy I rely on to win -- entrapment defense.
-- you -- wasting whose time wasting the taxpayer's time limiting thing.
Holding news side wasting time that we -- we could be spent today going after other terrorists.
We haven't adversarial legal system I mean.
You know individuals have a right to -- defense and on the did it it if it -- it's important for people -- -- -- -- -- it if it doesn't make -- common sense and the jury will lone wolves will judge it solid and that's the case of me to go you know what no one individual owners say go ahead and you know you're doing a good shot I don't know what it can't raise any kind of -- okay.
Although -- mark -- -- and individuals are entitled to whatever defense they actually have did not title for -- to give them the defense so that they can turn what ought to be a slaughter in -- -- horse race.
These cases are a waste of time if people bring entrapment defense is when they can't conceivably.
Legally -- the test of entrapment Andrew McCarthy mark Sawyer good to -- --
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