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-- -- Women lag behind what men get paid for doing that same work.
Paid less -- that it's time to -- Baghdad.
Should government forces -- Government tries don't -- quality -- the match was yanked.
Under water when the university -- -- wrestling program but is forcing the quality.
Fair it's one of ten -- the school is cut it hurt their differences between boys and girls.
The battle of the sexes had enough.
That's our shot.
-- get paid more than women significantly more.
In America today on average for every -- a man makes women earn just 77 cents.
One thing that just about every single job in America -- in -- -- get paid more for doing it.
No I shouldn't say that.
It's not fair if we do would get paid more for doing the same job I have a daughter I want her to be paid what she's worth.
Do we do the same jobs are women are really discriminated against.
Tonight we separated our studio audience may have -- this side women over here.
And as they came -- we asked the people with jobs to anonymously write down how much money there.
Then we average the salaries for the women the average turned out to be 66000.
For the man -- the 9000.
Above average -- you but that means that for every dollar the men make the women only made 83 cents.
Now that's more than the national average of 77 cents of good trio but.
The difference ticks people off than it was a campaign issue last election.
President Obama knows that women being paid 77 cents on the dollar for doing the same work this man isn't just don't care.
It hurts families.
It's time to close -- Dollar vs 77 cents what horrible discrimination.
Does the author of -- of power sex discrimination in corporate America.
-- -- -- -- Martha this gap is because of discrimination.
Not all love it but a good portion -- it is absolutely.
Because of discrimination.
But why would the employer and they're all sexist why would they discriminate.
Well some of them don't.
Really pay enough attention to -- their pay and -- and so they don't really realize that may be for a line management is making decisions.
That are not in the best interest of women some of them just think they can get away -- that and that goes back to.
The early twentieth century win.
People paid women less because they were women and said so out -- But you're saying McEnroe that's a hundred years ago you saying that's still going on today.
I'm saying that we still live in the legacy of it absolutely hit otherwise why would.
Take two jobs like.
School cafeteria worker and school custodian.
Why would those not be paid the same because -- the same skill level.
Same entry level.
Type of job but yet the custodians make more -- They're predominantly male the cafeteria ladies or just that.
Predominantly female and that job pays less the same is true with parole officers and social workers.
Essentially the same kind of work.
But parole officers make more money because they are -- dominantly male.
-- Warren Ferrell once agreed with what Martha says here's a picture of him with Gloria Steinem when he was a young hippie who.
Joined feminist protests.
He was even on the board of the activist group now the national organization for women.
My baby dug deeper into the data and changed his mind he wrote why men earn more of the startling truth behind the pay gap and what women can do about it.
He warn you decided it's not discrimination.
But I like him to understand was that the pay gap is not about men and women it's about mothers and fathers there's 25 different.
Work life choices that men and women make.
Every single one of -- choices leaves -- lead to men on average earning more money.
Every single one of women's choices leads them to have been a more balanced life which usually ends up being -- happier life so actually.
He say whether or smarter than men in a much smarter than we -- that's -- Clinton yet because the man has more willing to travel work a dangerous job sacrifices and his family life for work women.
Are more -- -- more grounded in well rounded.
Got to -- people pay for what they need and then go into the hazardous jobs that are likely to pay more given the amount of education they have they're more likely to work.
An extra week at weekends -- -- so what do you say about that.
I think mr.
Farrell's data are bogus everybody agrees that even in that female dominated jobs like nursing and teaching.
Men make more.
I just read a study before I came on the air by the American Bar Association.
Full partners in law firms and there is a huge gender pay gap Warren.
The nurses -- -- get ripped off.
Well there nurses might be but if you but it helps to know that a nurse anesthetist -- about a 375000.
If you're -- -- you -- much less than that so.
Let's teach our daughters especially as nations they can enter where they can out -- men -- -- all they send their girls -- Dull -- and they could make more money and they foolishly choose our history not knowing it'll pay less well if if they are taught only about discrimination -- not talk about held.
And likely they are to get a job with surface literature and art history major.
-- and they -- only care about fulfillment.
We we have to teach both her daughters that are so there's tradeoffs.
If you want fulfillment you'll get fulfillment and when you do studies of women business -- owners.
We mean business owners who have MBAs.
Make only 49%.
What -- -- his business owners commit sex is up and then we would think it was sexism and how we asked but the wind is his -- what you want.
And women business owners say I want flexibility I wanna be Malin plus I wanted to be close to home tomorrow.
So what about that you women are smarter and make better life choices you know work yourself to death.
-- has said that motherhood is punished.
Because as a choice women make.
Well he's got a point but he didn't tell us the other half.
And that ideas being a father and being married actually helps men in the workplace.
It punishes women.
We have a lot of data that shows that the employer looks at that woman -- she's not married yet.
And thinks of her as a potential mother so maybe I better not -- maybe -- better not pay quite as much.
Certainly don't want to promoter because she might get pregnant dropped out of the workforce.
And so well she Asians so this is the employer -- should worry about is so might -- -- -- well that's because the culture.
And -- -- -- punishes women for being mothers there's no organized child care for example.
When women make about a hundred or so thousand dollars a year they start asking a different set of questions many women say.
What do I want out of my life don't wanna make.
200000 a year or -- -- want more personal time to one more time with my children to a -- time at the gym doing what we're spiritual time to want more time with my.
With my spouse and women are more -- say I want to balance life and so they don't go to the very highest level because they're not stupid.
While many say they're making a choice of Warren thank you Martha thank you we won't solve this here.
Recently Sheryl Sandberg the chief operating officer of FaceBook wrote a book called -- in and she got attention for saying things like this.
Just a couple weeks ago -- -- we hosted a very senior government official and then he had these two women who are traveling with him were pretty senior in his apartment.
And I kind of sit and sit at the table constant at the table.
And they sat on sat around.
Some feminists were angry about what she said and but other other things in her book Sandberg quits the social justice based feminist movement at risk.
Said one leftist who was upset about.
Sandberg not agreeing that women's are victims of man and corporations.
-- they say sexist society -- women back not the way women act but.
-- Burke's -- didn't -- a number one best seller does she have a point.
Yes says Sabrina Schaeffer.
Of the independent women's forum so.
Well take it away.
Yeah I thought -- offered very thoughtful assessment of women in the workplace she did not initially.
When net workplace culture -- sexist did not offer public policy prescriptions she just be sort of nuts and bolts suggestions to women who have you know high aspirations and -- happy as strong career path aspirations and said.
Here are some real things that you can do to better yourself for the sort of a self felt no need to be as whole if they want to advance in the company -- take a seat at the table well actually yes the fact is that -- camera picks up on some very sensitive gender differences the men and women are different and the more that we can sort of recognize and accept those differences the better we are so she says.
Look women don't negotiate their salaries I was one of those women my brother told me he negotiated every salary he had.
The fact is once you're telling -- -- -- this.
Women -- But there may be ways that we're not thinking about asserting ourselves in the workplace that we could it do more.
Why were women on the left so angry about her book right at.
I think that they realize now that a lot of the battles that they're fighting have been -- women are outpacing an educationally outpacing them professionally.
And -- after awhile sort of a big -- really -- we still having this conference and you live longer than we do you're getting.
The -- up but there's one place I agree I agree with some of the feminist.
I think that's Samberg is a little bit out of touch and here's why I don't think that most women won -- Hamburg once.
-- look at some recent studies only 23% of women said that they would.
Her to work full time I'll let alone so -- -- CEO quality of life that that -- -- -- -- I think if you ask most women as Warren just suggested.
Most women want some kind of bound -- make my choice and that's why is I did you make a choice are you.
Earning less because you made a choice.
-- major -- there.
All right well thank you simply don't.
Is Cipro that women can do anything men can do.
-- -- Battle of the sexes continues let's talk sports.
Personal -- -- the audience how many of you love sports.
-- slightly more men let's be narrow it down how many have you played his sport this month.
-- -- All right more guys I.
I think that's typical when it comes to sports men and women I think are different -- all of you but most of you.
This to me it's just common sense but to say that is not politically correct and it's utterly unacceptable in Washington DC.
Where politicians passed a law called title nine which says.
No person -- on the basis of sex be subjected to discrimination under.
Any education program.
Sounds good guy discrimination.
Doesn't it's it's something we like.
And our vice president says title nine changed civilization.
-- -- power.
Okay law is Sean lot is former president of the national association for girls and women in sport.
Title -- changed civilization but where else I would encourage.
But wasn't civilization already changing.
Maybe I would -- isn't say that -- had a huge impact on society today.
So you were an athlete as a child -- this picture view here when you wanted to play soccer.
There were no girls' teams you ended up on this voice here.
Right the only girl -- And then -- college -- -- Penn State there were some girls team.
Yes -- some women's teams but the team I played on the soccer team was still club status.
And so we wanted to be a varsity team and get the recognition and support.
And half the time Penn State did not support -- -- soccer so we filed the title nine complaint so that we would have.
Have to be a law I would argue that.
People were just waking up to what women could do at the time -- this what happened anyway if women -- wanted to play sports.
Universities who wanted the customers would have accommodated.
It would have been very very very slowly.
And I think but I wouldn't -- university -- we can't get these women.
To provide equal opportunity in activities and athletics.
-- cost money.
And title nine really forced educational institutions to make sure that both are sons and daughters.
Have equal opportunity.
Equal opportunity would suggest that women want to play sports just as much as -- you say they do you do.
I can you.
What you get from what you think well one averaged aren't that I meet with women often have other interest I seemed -- little kids the girls talk the men -- -- -- -- and smash into each other.
Boys and it.
Are we different.
I think we.
Each have uniqueness.
I think title nine really pushes -- issue that regardless of its athletics if it's drama.
If it's the ban -- and that whether you're man or woman you should have the opportunity to participate in that activity.
I keep hearing about aren't happy news for boys and about title nine leading colleges to eliminate some men's sports teams.
The match was yanked out from under Warner last summer when the university cut the wrestling program over title nine.
-- you no longer has a swim team it's one of ten teams the school is cutting.
Indoor track is the most drop men's team so isn't this sort of.
Bad for the guys unfortunately.
The powers to being and athletic directors presidents have.
Chosen to make the decision -- cut.
Mendes so called minor sports because there -- in an endless pool of money and by cutting some of those minor men's sports.
Then -- college and university has -- money that they can.
Support women's athletics.
Division one gymnastics fell from 107 teams in the -- to seventeen today.
When this is.
Should there be lawsuits that did say that.
You have to have equal numbers in dance in cheerleading and the year -- more girls like to do that.
I think that's that's the bit of -- Academic clubs vocational clubs hobby clubs more women than men.
Cheerleading to 19%.
Vs 8% music programs 26%.
-- sixteen person.
Well again that's the debated how -- new.
-- this had to be forced I would think the culture just change when when I was a kid my school was all men.
We complained and Princeton voluntarily.
Admitted women -- Culture was changing -- it once it was taboo for women to smoke Wear trousers in public.
To -- toolbar alone.
This just change because the culture changes we don't need your stupid law.
We need the law.
We would have been -- -- hundreds and hundreds of years we have been winning -- -- -- I mean we until years yeah we still wouldn't wanna -- yeah.
Okay -- came wonder is right now if we didn't push the issue and a lot of times what happens is.
A long house to pass and social.
Except -- social mores don't change.
For quite awhile after the -- -- -- stick around there you'll have a chance to take questions from the audience I look forward to it that we consider.
As we consider the battle of the sexes.
There's something in boys and girls brains.
Make them do things like this.
The girls cared more about playing with the job talking and cooperating.
Are there a significant biological differences between men and women outside.
Sex organs that is.
When I was in college I was -- it's acceptable to say that.
Feminist professors taught -- men and women are biologically the same and it's only.
Because of sexist society.
Parents and peers encouraging boys to play with guns girls to play with dolls that causes boys and girls to behave differently.
If we just stopped doing that there would soon be equal numbers of female race car drivers and male ballet dance.
And I believe that I really did until I had children and woke up and then that are reported ABC news that got me into trouble I said look -- and girls are just not the same.
-- We treated -- the same but they were just so different.
I don't just mean might kids -- see -- in their friends to the girls -- wealthy more civilized.
They've looked you in the talk -- they cared about your field.
The boys want to go to war.
The girls cared more about playing with each other coffee cooperating.
There were plenty of exceptions of course but the pattern was clear no matter how sex neutral we parents tried to be.
This seemed obvious to me that boys and girls instincts are somehow different.
And the author of the power of the female brain agrees with that that's neuroscientist doctor Daniel payment.
And doctor -- you conducted the biggest brain study ever dawn 46000.
Brain scans and found lot.
Female brains were dramatically more active.
In about 85%.
Of the Bryant women are really wired for leadership and if you look bad.
The homes and you look at organizations like churches there are often the leaders they're clearly the health leaders.
And if it wasn't for this thing called children that derails their careers that they really make great CEOs.
In our studies and also I point this out in the block their -- with things like empathy into question.
Self control in fact women go to jail.
Fourteen times less than males and went.
Many people wouldn't think of is a strength that I think it's totally -- strength is they have appropriate worry.
They don't worry be happy people -- often men on motorcycles.
Di -- -- -- from accidents or preventable illnesses and this out well wired anyway rains this is not about parenting.
It's wired and into your brain.
Little boys are exposed to testosterone.
And girls aren't.
It there is reshaping -- re modeling that happens and it happens very early.
Inside your mother's.
Well at conception we begin this the same clump of cells except for the Y chromosome which we guys have a net.
Causes hormones to be added to the clump of cells and these make men's brains different.
Right so whether you have the Y chromosome -- you down triggers testosterone.
Are not nearly as much.
And the level of testosterone you had in utero begins to shape your brain in a certain -- And changes you forever.
Well it certainly makes a big difference but what's interest -- is that if women take testosterone.
And that's happening more and more are.
That if they take too much they begin to think like a guy they always think about sacks they have less empathy.
And it can cause some trouble.
They are they ride motorcycles now I I've I wanna poll moved my audience here -- how many of you.
Have a good sense of direction.
More guys so I'm seeing.
Raising their hand and women and that's my experience look at these two experiments that.
I reported on for my sex difference show this first one was done at the University of Rochester.
Students are blindfolded and then walked through the maze of tunnels that run underneath the campus.
Experimenters stays behind them and guides them with a tap on the shoulder so they don't run into anybody.
When the women are asked where college building here and tell me where Wilson commons they're not so sure.
Men however retained a sense of what direction they move.
Through the next two hours -- left -- -- And I left.
And some -- in another experiment this -- at York university in Toronto students were asked to wait in a cluttered rule while experiment or got something ready.
What the student didn't -- -- was that waiting was the whole experiment because they were then asked this.
Don't lose -- object in the room that you remember that women typically give answers like this on the right hand I think that's great hair was briefcase with your initials of the top.
And there was two with -- and a I am 45 -- in the middle there -- envelopes your university envelopes there was -- can't clear itself it and.
The women would go on and on and the man who would say things like I don't -- there was some stuff.
So doctor amen this this is a biological difference.
No question in fact the memory signers of the brand it's called hippocampus.
Deep in the brain significantly more active.
In women and then in men which is why she remembers your first tests.
And every time your mother was rude to her.
-- and emotional memories.
Today have trouble letting -- go.
And -- often remember things you wish they would have forgotten.
Remember my first hit it just reminds me of what happens.
-- who Lawrence Summers she.
President of Harvard where he dared say may be just may be a reason that women.
-- don't dominate the way men do in the sciences.
Might be biologically.
Got drummed out of Harvard.
Just for saying that.
Well he did but it wisdom but I think it was the wrong message then today why aren't perhaps as good -- are as.
Confident their brains in that particular area of the brain hard just stays strong.
But -- More biased.
Issues and so there are more likely.
To go into professions where they want to interact with people.
Interest and thank you adapter and it went where return.
How young reporter John console was totally clueless.
In general and coed schools the boys get the better deal -- play right.
-- on the -- there.
-- -- battle of the sexes continues let's focus on school.
So I wanna ask the audience how many -- you like school.
I see more hands on the women's side and that was my experience I hated school.
When my kids were born the message was that school is unfair.
-- girl it's that.
Parents should consider all girl schools because boys are so -- how -- and dominant in classrooms.
And that is what I found when I read a book to a class of first graders.
Look what happens.
This boy comes from the back of the class.
But it's double -- to make a point.
Soon there are three boys he might face commenting on the book.
The girls stay seated.
Getting -- little pension plan and boy or girl -- while -- Yeah.
Pick those children can't can't can't see why shouldn't the class.
Yeah and this girl had a theory as to why boys are quicker to raise their hands.
-- I don't know how they would be continued Iraq you know there.
Now I assumed that she was right because -- happens to be my daughter who said that.
And the prevailing theory at the time was that because of boys aggressiveness coed schools purchase.
Unfair to girls who were overwhelmed by the -- But maybe things have changed because today many educators say it's the boys who get -- school and terrible it.
-- a psychologist Leonard sax is the author of boys adrift.
Which argues that today's schools are toxic to -- so.
Doctor your book -- it school takes boys motivational way.
Boys had 78 years of age you'll see things like I hate school schools stupid.
And I asked -- why do you say that and mostly well.
Jason you were thrown snowballs and we got in trouble -- He said we can draw anything we want an art and I drew picture -- sword and -- got in trouble or in this and we could write a story about whatever we want.
And I -- get in trouble for drawing a -- yes absolutely and American public schools today it is common for -- many schools have a zero tolerance policy which means not only can you not bring.
-- plastic replica of a gun or sort of school.
You cannot draw a -- -- for good reason to reduce violence it's an assumption which is not based in evidence the notion is that if you don't allow boys.
To draw a sword they will become -- -- -- fairies who want to talk about their feelings.
It's not true what they do instead is they chew I was referring to Disney -- except -- As in Tinker Bell.
Don't -- their bread into.
A pistol and I again I give many examples of schools in the United States were boy has chewed his piece of bread into the shape of a pistol and he gets suspended -- -- When you -- a school you wanna creative writing award.
You know for writing a story.
In which east German refugees tried to escape to west Germany and one of them got his legs blown off in a mine field and died.
And then I visited a school very recently where tenth grade English his son -- -- registrar recorder you want.
This -- wrote a story.
Battle of Stalingrad -- 1942.
From the perspective of Russian soldier on patrol.
And he's he's ambushed by a German and fires his rifle point blank range and describes what happens and how -- had is is explodes basically and this play was suspended from school.
What he's doing things have boys have always done throwing snowballs at one another drawing pictures of a weapon writing stories about traumatic amputation and death.
What he's doing things in boys have always done now -- -- in trouble and that's why so many American boys to schools for girls the boy who writes the story about.
-- combat now gets in trouble instead of getting an award as I did he get suspended from school.
Look when I went to high school in Ohio thirty some years ago.
The kids earning honors at the honors awards about -- -- -- the school newspaper the -- in the year -- they were all boys.
Now they're all girls wouldn't go to 5050 we swung the other way -- look at debate team OP debate team in my -- -- ball boys.
Now it's almost all girls -- boys decide that arguing.
Is not something boy I do you grow up -- a sexist world now all of -- more equaling the girls took over because they're smarter.
No they're going to always have decided that being in the big cub cub was uncool because it is aligned with the academic objectives of the school.
To a school for boys today -- spend the next level and call of duty in World of Warcraft.
And the schools don't understand us they don't understand that telling -- I don't want to really destroy you want to -- I don't want to read the story you want to -- I want you to write about your feelings I want you to write -- -- about how -- would feel if you weren't hidden.
-- invited to the party.
And what happens is -- say oh instead of writing about the battle of Stalingrad I'm gonna write a story about how I would feel if I wasn't gonna be invited the party.
Where's that Obama can do that bush -- school sucks.
I'm gonna go home play call of -- stick around doctor because these are touchy issues and our audience would like to question you.
And our other guests and then will confront some myths about gender are women worst drivers.
And our men more likely to cheat.
That's coming up.
We're back with your questions for my guests Leonard -- is his boys are -- by American schools.
-- lot of who says we need government to force schools to provide equal sports for girls son.
Sabrina Schaeffer who runs the independent women's forum so first from my FaceBook page.
Why is no one tonight talk about the fact we have to physical standards between men and women in the military and law enforcement.
More fire departments for that matter are we equal or not.
We do have it's.
Standards and that's really biological.
If we look at physiological.
Differences like hormones.
-- -- more testosterone so they have a greater capacity.
Of muscle mass and to be strong so shouldn't men have an advantage in -- let's send combat.
The average man but there are women who do have greater strength.
Then some men so why don't have one test of those women who have equal or greater strength they get in but we have.
We even get to do few more push -- and run the mile more slowly winds that -- They have other skills as well they can be beneficial to the fired -- Let's go to the audience yes.
But in terms of business and technology much of the innovation that we see coming out -- these fields still seems to come mostly from men even though.
Women are graduating.
From college in greater numbers.
So my question is when you get a master's degrees there are absolutely.
And what do you think of the long term effects of this what do you think the effects will be on the economy.
-- -- -- -- -- -- uninteresting question which is what drives innovation.
Steve Jobs -- the greatest innovator of our generation was a college dropout Bill Gates was a college dropout.
So academic achievement measured by college degrees does not reliably correlated with innovation so we men -- just for innovative.
Well that and also we have to look at where women are placing their efforts and many more women are getting bachelor's degrees master's degrees and Ph.D.s that there -- field.
That aren't necessarily the same as men -- -- -- -- and -- computer science were we may see very tangible results in terms of innovation.
Women who are getting in -- you know Kate she's an English she may not see the same thing however we are seeing a lot of women -- -- going into these these big tech firms for instance the Sheryl -- the Virginia -- that.
-- IBM and Microsoft just hired another splash -- what they are the exception.
Right but they are influencing this animation.
Who's got the -- over here you said that the title nine you felt was necessary beyond the social changes that if it wasn't for that we'd still be in the stone ages.
I was just wondering how you would explain.
A relatively new sport such as mixed martial arts -- cage fighting.
It's barely been around for twenty years already there's females in a number of major organizations.
Without any sort of law that required him to do that.
You know how did that how did that come about without a -- societal change.
Title nine was passed in 1972.
So that's over forty years now that title nine has impacted.
Social beliefs and so now in civil law.
Change people's attitudes it wasn't the -- opened the doors for women to have opportunities would you say it's still necessary would you say that the change has been accomplished -- get rid of it.
I had absolutely not good job.
-- the national women's law center estimates at least 70%.
Of colleges and universities are still not in compliance with title nine.
And so we think they'll have always want to play sports advised throw the football but look look at these guys I know.
Can I -- it to the girls.
My god thank you Leonard Sean celebrate it coming up.
Women drivers and philandering man.
Is what people say about them -- we had some miss.
Finally -- coupled myths about differences between the sexes.
Is it true that women are bad drug tumors or at least worse than man.
Where do you think let me ask you how many of you think raise your hand that women are worse drivers.
It's called the men not the women's -- well I say as with all these myths there is some.
This video which is -- to watch more than a million times illustrates what I think stroke.
Women often just aren't very good -- maneuvering their car.
Maybe it's about brain differences relating to depth perception or something but in this parking lot a woman tries to park again and again.
But she just can not get into the parking space finally a man gets out of his car switches places with the woman driver.
And he's quickly able to -- her car.
That he gets back into his.
One comment on the web site said women should be in the kitchen none at the steering wheel.
But when it comes to bad driving what is the best measure -- -- not really.
-- driving without hitting things matters more and by that measure we men are much worse much more likely to crash a car.
This is a graph of deadly car accidents since 1975.
The goodness is that the total has gone down either cars -- save her most everyone drives better.
Or -- but the clear difference between the two lines shows that meant crash cars more often.
There's one -- search review put it.
Min drive faster than women were more likely to speed drive drunk run stop signs that we crashed twice as often as women do.
In the US men -- 71% of all deaths on the -- Now of course men drive more miles than women -- even went miles and driving hours are factored in.
We man still get in a more accidents and hurt more people.
Piece on that you gotta say when -- better driver.
None are more likely to be unfaithful to cheat on their partners -- That true I asked the audience again how many of you have cheated on your -- -- of course.
All right you're not had to give me an honest answer but anonymous surveys and popular culture suggests that men are more likely to cheat.
And evolution may be the reason for thousands of years a woman -- her children were more likely to survive if she found a man who would stay and help protect her in the kids.
Women who partnered with such men were more likely to pass their genes on -- future generations.
By contrast men were more likely to pass on their genes that they had sex with lots of women and -- lots of kids.
And today we're told women want a committed relationship and men want variety.
And deeply sorry that I did not live up to what was expected of me I did not have sexual relations with that woman.
So there are men more likely to cheat -- kinsey institute study found 19% of women.
Of men reported cheating so men are more likely to cheat.
-- the numbers are close cheating isn't just a guy thing.
And that no that's our show for tonight more they're more myths in my book about -- Often what we think we know -- it is just not -- See -- next.
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