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By first guest tonight resigned from the NSA after -- career spanning more than three decades.
Protesting growing domestic surveillance joining us now is William -- former NSA Emporia and -- war.
Good to have you with us and I don't -- get first your reaction.
Two to -- -- most recent comments talking about hacking operations.
Of the United States government.
Clearly putting their preferring to put his fate in the hands of Hong Kong rather than follow Americans or -- Our government.
Well I can't really I don't really have -- knowledge and I'm so I'm not really privy to the hacking.
That's the active attack.
System that -- is in place there in Fort -- So -- couldn't really I know they do it but I don't know what the extent of it -- You left the USA and it and protests really over.
The decision by the by the government to conduct surveillance.
Seeking out terrorists this after September 11 2000 walk.
You have seen.
Well the history since.
What are your thoughts now about these allegations.
And the extent the sweep of you if you will.
Of the surveillance that is taking place by the US government.
Well okay that from where I sit and what I've seen and what I've read so far and what I know.
They're really they really attacking 22.
Communications systems like the public switched telephone network that includes land lines mobile phones.
That's a worldwide system.
And then also they're looking at the Internet then the worldwide web.
Which again is a worldwide system that is that IP addresses I PV four and six so those are like phone numbers if you will.
Or you can draw the analogy.
And what they're doing is fully in all -- -- the meta data to reconstructed.
Interest store if you will the social networks.
Every individual in the world.
And in particular reason I left of one of the reside.
I couldn't stay there for sure -- was the fact that they were doing -- every US citizen.
I mean my knowledge was that they were taking in about 320 million.
Records of long distance calls of US citizens to other US citizens every day and that started in October of 2001.
And that's why I could not be a part of it.
And the Patriot Act which which followed the authorization.
Off for the government to begin much of that surveillance.
Did that and anyway -- your your concerns.
Again that the see the issues.
Lou is that what they can do.
The capability with that metadata is to build the entire can communities like for example.
The Tea Party right would you like to reconstruct the Tea Party or the occupy groups.
And who is central to the Tea Party who has peripheral and who's that who's coming and you could have the data about them right including getting their names.
And if they apply for.
Exempt tax exempt status.
And you can you can check that list to see if there on it and then target them if you want to that's the problem with it that's the problem with the government having so much knowledge about.
Citizens of the country.
They then the knowledge about the citizens of the country vs.
The records of their communications.
Rather read go to operation prism and include emails.
You along -- The that their phone calls and those community -- communication.
It is what you do with them the storage in and of itself.
And when it -- method in metadata form if you will you don't drill down unless you have probable cause and reason and great specificity.
I I hear you saying that that's an illusion.
There -- 24.
There are two ways to produce intelligence.
About any any target in the world.
One is to read what they're saying and then pay attention to that gives you intelligence of the others they build the metadata and see how the interact with one another -- And when you do that and timeline that over a period of time you can see who's doing what with whom.
And and infer from just the interactions some of the activities that they're intending to do.
For example if -- if you had a drug smuggler in Colombia that wanted to could smuggle drugs in the United States.
He'd have to communicate with someone in the United States in some form to two.
Arrange the sell and -- Relationship.
Then you have to arrange with somebody to transport -- then you have to transfer the money.
And transfer the drugs of those things have to happen they show up his interactions.
In the metadata.
And once you see them you can infer that that's in fact what they're doing so there's a lot of things you can do you can look and see.
If you're having medical problems you can see the medical.
Doctors that you're visiting -- making appointments with.
So that you know the metadata is really pretty dangerous.
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