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Well the fallout surrounding the NSA seizure -- phone records continues now in court the American Civil Liberties Union filing a motion.
Seeking -- release of secret court opinions which allow those records to be acquired.
The group's Washington legislative director Laura Murphy joins us now welcome Laura.
Hi hi -- OK so if you are successful winning this motion what do you expect these opinions from the -- a secret what -- say.
We expect that they will turn over -- there legal rationale for granting such broad.
Powers to the government to spy on American citizens and businesses what would satisfy you in terms of the legal justification defies -- secret court was using for -- surveillance has.
I don't think there's any satisfaction to be had we believe that.
The court should use the probable cause standard of probable cause that a person is engaged in terrorism -- criminal activity.
That once you weaken that standard you.
Leave the door open to.
And no one in congress that I've talked to envision that the Patriot Act would be used in this broader fashion so there's a great deal of uproar in congress and you will be seeing press conferences.
And maybe even litigation from congress as well as the ACLU so I'm gonna count -- you hear the argument in favor of the -- the secret court is that.
It would use its jurisdiction to protect every day Americans.
Government could zero when he -- -- zero in on terrorist networks.
OK so let me give you an example silly -- the only person in the courtroom in a criminal prosecution was the prosecutor.
Suppose there was no defense attorney.
Prosecutors would have served what they needed and what they thought the person deserved and there there would be no one to attest to the persons in a sense soared to say that.
The chargers are two bride.
That's the case in the fives -- court it is not an adversarial proceeding -- and show you don't have.
Someone in there representing the public interest and it is our fear.
That defies -- court is too offering rubber stamp thing.
Federal law enforcement and surveillance agencies and NSA is the Defense Department agencies -- people are being spied upon by the military.
The other defense of this process Michael Mukasey did an op Ed in the Wall Street -- you may have seen it basically pointing out that when you expose the way terrorists communicate.
It just causes them to find new probably hired.
Tech ways to communicate and thereby forcing the government -- -- -- giant steps backward in this process says.
Get rid of terrorism.
Sure that I mean -- the question is who we are as a society.
If we forced everyone to have glass houses so we could make sure that no terrorist activity took place in those houses.
You know that would not be acceptable to the public so we have the expectation of privacy under the Fourth Amendment to our constitution bill of rights and we need to.
Have that expectation of privacy extended.
Now if you have probable car was that there is terrorism or criminal activity.
Going on of course took ward is -- -- share.
The ability to collect.
Phone conversations not just them made -- data.
So we have this is -- now right the tension is growing ever so fit between this.
This need for our freedoms our civil liberties of course.
And to -- that wish this search and destruction terrorism so where where are we now in that Laura.
I think the public really doesn't know the extent of violations that the government may be engaged in and I think Glenn Greenwald and other journalists are saying.
Watch out there's more to come and I think.
The president's answer to this that we're not looking at your email is insufficient because if we can find out if the government can find out.
Where you are when you make a phone call and who you call.
They get a lot of information and I think business needs to be especially concerned about this because.
You can find out in advance whether mergers taking place you can find out whether businessman is calling his.
Or a business -- Is calling her divorce lawyer that could.
That information could be leaked.
And it could be very hard right vote so we don't want to live in that society where -- the government knows so much about us in this native data.
That they are collecting.
Tells a great deal about every individual in every business it's an important discussion to continue having him armor for -- thank you for your time this afternoon.
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