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But we can dig it out with the former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and and mr.
All right I'm suspicious that you knew all these scandals -- coming because you wrote this book on leadership.
And my goodness do we have a -- need for leadership that the Rumsfeld rules leadership lessons.
Business politics war and life so.
Got to mean history repeats itself to why aren't people -- what I saw a young man who just spokesman for the president.
-- -- the other -- and was asked by Bob Schieffer over at CBS about the fact that you weren't alive during Watergate he admitted he wasn't so he was.
He they don't even have experience a -- studied at about what's happened in previous scandals.
No that's true one of my rules is of course if you're gonna make mistakes at least make original mistakes and don't repeat those of others.
-- that's so.
And that's the problem is and in the history repeats itself stuff and all of those sorts of things it isn't going to be in -- if you're going to be in high government.
It seems like you should be a pretty good Steward of what's happened in the past good and bad.
No that's right and and you'd also be did have people around you who have had.
Experiences that are different than yours and and who have different perspectives.
So that you can you can you know unless you're -- Mozart -- Einstein who can go off.
In a -- by themselves and do something brilliant all the rest of us what we do in life we do with other people.
And if we do it with people just like us.
We don't benefit from the the experiences in the perspectives.
And they multi multi dimensional.
Aspects of life.
We need to have other people around us who have different experiences and end it's a real risk if you don't.
I'd you know I guess you'd call part to deduct about business politics war and life.
Is it and you were also CEO -- couple different companies in the privacy is -- you've done government you've done the private sector.
Is there are dramatically different way to manage in.
Public vs private.
Well there's that there's a big difference because -- -- the examination the the microscopic.
Examination of everything anyone does -- government.
It is -- quite different experience from business.
On the other hand a lot of the rules apply every bit as much to business as they do the government.
I mean in either case if you don't know where you're going any road will get you there.
If you if you if you can't measure something you you can't manage it that's true in government and it's true in business the big differences.
In business you can develop an idea put in place.
-- it and then calibrated or stop but if it isn't working or improve it if it if it is working.
In government you put something in place and it gets a congressional hearing in the press examines -- and everyone looks at it.
Before you have much time to even see if it's gonna work.
There's a big difference.
It reminds me of -- -- at thirty exterior wide management you know were you can manage a mathematician one way butter artist another way.
Is the artist is never done the mathematician.
Is done and you know whether the answer was right or wrong.
Exactly -- mathematics has that great advantage.
-- back in measuring is important having metrics and the problem with government is that tendency there.
Is to measure effort and imports not.
-- -- -- It whereas in business you don't get measured on your inputs in your effort to get measured on the bottom -- -- and and that's that's a good thing.
Which is why business can be efficient and if it isn't it goes out of business whereas government can be inefficient and go on forever.
So as you sit here with this book and in the last part of is the business politics war and life.
So if you look back.
You know and in business you had.
Government you've had many -- event's success as an individual but.
People will always question whether you did something right or wrong especially Iraq Afghanistan those sort of things.
Do you well that's right -- you know one of -- -- couple of rules.
One is if you do something somebody's not gonna like it.
It's also true that somebody will like it.
It in the private sector if that happens which it does.
It's hardly noticed in in government when you do something.
If somebody doesn't like it they say so and it gets accumulated.
Over time that's why one of the rules in there in my book rumsfeld's rules is dogs don't bark at parked cars.
If -- if you get a -- if you're doing something in your moving dogs -- gonna market.
And and that's understandable.
And that's fair enough.
If you're part nobody -- -- -- bother to bark and they may do something else that dog.
Well wells said good good rules Rumsfeld rules would put it that way it's a great book great read secretary Donald Rumsfeld thank you very much.
Thank you good to be what you.
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