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The well -- Ben Ghazi talking points.
Must be frustrating the the Obama White House greatly right now.
My first guest is characterized -- been Gaza responses a cover up.
From almost the beginning joining us now is Donald Rumsfeld.
Former secretary of defense under presidents Ford and George W.
Author of the new book bombs -- rules.
Leadership lessons of business politics war and like mr.
secretary great to have you here thank you you have said possession since October.
My that this was a coverup.
You said that the the responsibility for the way the White House.
Has tried to cover this up and manage it falls on the president himself.
Obviously you were prescient in and making that statement a given what we now know.
What they have now as former chief of staff of the White House I would describe this as the perfect storm they have.
A series of problems.
And they all kind of converge on one word and that's trust.
You know -- our country we lead by consent not -- And to be.
Persuasive with people -- have to trust you.
And what's happening here is is age because of a series of things certainly been -- -- also be higher us and the way it's been handled by the White House.
And the unit kind of -- of the precedent.
-- the focal leading from Holland is not only apparently.
With respect to foreign policy -- -- with respect to domestic and White House policy.
It erodes trust.
I was the kid called back where president Ford after the Nixon resignation after Watergate.
And the -- -- more trusted -- drained.
And it took a person like Gerald Ford to.
And is -- integrity and its basic human decency to help refill that reservoir trusted.
And he was -- between -- and rumsfeld's rules there that said something to the effect that trusts leaves on horseback.
And returns on -- You can lose it fast and it takes a long time to rebuild that.
And and that's unfortunate because this is an important country and the office of the presidency is important but.
The way things have been handled.
Heavy -- -- that trust.
This president and making the rash judgments that he did are going before the the national media.
And it's -- He was an angry man that anyone's -- even suggest.
That he or anyone in his administration broke from the -- failed ethically or made a mistake we now know.
This White House lied to the American people.
Jay Carney flat out lied the administration built a case.
That the State Department did not Alter intelligence.
-- Ben Ghazi.
And good lord we don't know what else because we've only begun to go through those hundred -- -- Is this that and combat.
They've been -- situation where the president went to the US.
And and mrs.
Clinton the secretary of state went to the family members of those that were killed.
And said it was the YouTube and we're gonna get the people the man who did the YouTube this video -- -- Which which didn't have anything to do list and and the people on the ground knew that the the attack against the.
The -- got the facility was well organized they were well armed they'd been warned.
The brits had actually pulled out before him and their proper security hadn't been provided as had the International Red Cross there was no mystery.
-- secret about the number of terrorists or groups and those affiliated with al-Qaeda.
-- it was September 11 the anniversary.
It it is it is stunning stuff and and -- that you're hearing.
In the hallways and friends and family which of these scandals is their biggest the worst.
To me the worst he's been gutsy because four Americans died in this administration has chosen not to be honest with the American people indeed.
Part of this administration has -- You talked about trust.
You know we're.
We're concerned about those four Americans because America didn't go to the rescue.
Someone was told to stand out.
One of your successors that defense said that he believes in is he understands the banks he would have made the same decision I've got to -- -- If you can give us some some judgment as to what given the -- What your judgment would have.
In such circumstances.
-- I don't know.
That's one of my rules also would you don't know -- say you don't know and don't be shy about it.
I want to hear they have the hearings go forward and find out what took place.
I've been told quite the contrary I've been told that they they units had moved from Stuttgart down to Italy.
And I had also been told that for an entirely different reason there was a unit in Tripoli.
That had some capability in some.
Airlift and -- -- and now.
I don't know the facts as to who could have gotten there in what period of time.
But by golly we have history as a country of looking out for people and that each trying.
And I've got a lot of respect for Leon Panetta who who Bob gates -- was agreeing with and for Bob.
And I bet I'm not there I -- I would want to know precisely what took place in my.
There's this sense I have is that it was probably too bad that they were told standout.
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