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Capitalists make kill these cute little animals and our emissions -- all of our.
Climate change is happening -- Celebrities and politicians have solutions these cool people all electric hybrid.
No mine mayor wants to banned styrofoam columns.
I think is something we can do without.
They're going to Somalia got a football what's next in the name of protecting earth we have green tearing.
That's our show.
Green purity is what we called this show but.
-- these harsh word -- stuff of dictatorships.
-- a little over the top.
Most green rules don't seem to rise to back.
Also bans on pollution are actually a good thing I'm glad government rules made the air and water cleaner.
When I was a kid there was so much so I didn't -- many places we didn't open the wind up.
That's change for the better.
Government dictates clean the water -- so much cell that the rivers around Manhattan are now clean and off this women.
Even here within sight of the Empire State Building within a short distance -- millions of people -- I'm willing to do that.
It was freezing cold but no longer so filthy so her -- for the EPA.
So why -- only use the phrase green tyranny.
-- cuts government all was goes too far.
He years ago when I first learned that some animals were going extinct I thought the Endangered Species Act was a great idea.
But in my hands of government lawyers and environmental zealots has become an instrument of -- -- tearing.
-- -- prairie dogs Beatles take priority over people.
See this -- He is the Utah prairie -- You'd better hope you don't find him when you're doing it because if you do government can make it almost impossible for you do you lose your life.
So let's say Ed point of unfair and Bruce -- they bought land hoping to develop that that then the government's environmental -- -- ordered them to stop.
Jim barreling from the Pacific legal foundations trying to help films so wait what's this about this is.
Is about the Endangered Species Act going too far we have for example tens of thousands of prairie dogs living in you -- under the protection of the the federal government and as a result if you own land with prairie dogs on it you could hardly get word if you have a cemetery.
They could be -- -- the cemetery like they are in Utah right now in southern Utah.
If you own an airport the airport is being overrun -- prairie dogs and yet can't do much of anything about it.
And these current dogs they shouldn't be endangered they're just like every other prairie dogs so far as we know -- -- a little different color well they're much.
To be something different I mean we have a picture here of the black tailed prairie dog which is.
Plentiful apparently it isn't but that the Utah prairie dog which does look the same to me.
Is threatened and these these experts are not just venal they want to preserve every species.
And they wonder preserve everything including things that don't exist in certain areas affected move to the gulf for fraud for -- don't do that quite yet because Bruce let's hear your story you have owned land in Utah for awhile you wanted to do what -- I about the piece of land for my retirement to develop as -- commercial piece.
And when prairie dogs moved on what happened was the process of getting them removed.
You have to go through it take process and this take process -- -- 3.4 acres.
Would have taken 42.
And that we have a statement from the Fish and Wildlife Service say we work with homeowners.
We continue to provide financial and technical assistance to encourage voluntary conservation.
A couple years ago they came out with a program that if I paid.
Dollars to the government I could then kill all the prairie dogs on my property.
If I didn't pay the 34000.
And I killed one prairie dog it would be a 101000 dollar fine and five years in federal prison.
I could rub my local convenience market and get off easier than that.
A couple people have gone to jail for endangered species they had violations but so I'm surprised he didn't pay the 35 foul and killed a prayer ago.
Well I didn't have the money.
-- Ed you live in Louisiana you have a problem with a different animal.
I actually have a problem with a nonexistent animal.
It is called the -- -- go for fraud and the Fish and Wildlife Service has certified that the fraud itself has not been seen in the state of Louisiana.
And they actually exists.
Elsewhere it just hasn't been seen in your neck of the warts now in my neck of the woods in the whole state.
And they want to have re establish that there.
They've said that they want the land that we have which is over 15100.
To become a -- conservation area and we'll utterly destroy the value of -- land which they will not and they have told me this.
Pay for it's just a massive.
Federal land you want to build some homes little we want to build homes and businesses.
We are north of Lake Pontchartrain and -- -- of this land was high and dry and still is it would be.
Very very very valuable for people live on to avoid the kind of flooding that -- -- Katrina so.
It's illegal for government had just come in and take your land without compensation but this is sort of a form of that they're saying.
It's worth zillions of dollars but you can't make that money that's correct the fish and wildlife said they were not available to come on the show ordered.
Talk about this and in response to your complaint they posted this video on -- to.
We're looking forward in working -- willing landowners in Louisiana in fact he certainly has many -- -- partners based.
Program that can provide -- -- -- financial -- he spends the money should be six.
It does but that does not give -- -- whole picture any time a federal government intelligence agency tells you that want to work with you.
You've been around the wrong the other way because they're not gonna pay you.
Would have to burn on the land we have a long term terminal lease on -- that we would then breach we will never be able to develop and sell alive and it won't be good for people to use it.
Fish and wildlife the government has a handbook on how to do this but it's more than 300 pages long.
315 an exact which is another reason they need a lawyer like huge so sum this up what's going well.
-- official -- service is going wild it's a rogue agency that is not even obeying.
The Endangered Species Act it's not obeying the national environmental policy act does not -- the US does do wild and roll them I assume these people mean well they're not evil.
They mean well but their priorities are all about the species and nothing about the individual landowners who are simply trying -- earn a living on their land.
This is an agency that is forgotten who they serve.
They think they're only serving the animals but they should be serving the people that live on the land as well.
People and the animals can co exist and they can't cooperate to do this but when you have the heavy -- to the federal government.
Threatening people of jail time threatening with huge fines if you don't do this then you're going to have -- -- trouble.
It also -- -- sentence because landowners.
-- not want to help.
Hence the phrase shovel what should shoot shovel and shut up.
That is the trifecta.
That happens on some -- it's something that I don't encourage.
But it's a matter of fact it does happen and some people do it legally some people are cutting down their trees before they get warm enough to beat.
As habitat for red -- Qaeda woodpeckers socket for the woodpecker is not good for the land is not good for the economy it's good for the bureaucrats if you go to nine to five job.
Thank you Jim and Edward and -- -- Coming up.
In the name of saving the environment while wall my hair band next.
I don't know what -- little thing.
And also fossil fuels could they make the world greener.
But -- European politicians push -- energy.
You know that they now have second thoughts that's.
We're constantly told -- Green use less energy shrink our carbon footprint.
-- the name of doing that the US government gives six billion dollars in subsidies to solar industry eleven billion -- we in power companies.
Now of wind or solar were practical that -- need billion dollars entrepreneurs would just invest -- but.
Investors shy away is they want to throw their own money away.
The green advocates aren't satisfied with the billions to already give them they want more and you're -- has been -- more.
This thrills the chattering class Thomas Friedman wrote if only we could be as energy is Smart as Denmark.
Reuters said Germany sets new solar power record government support for -- help Germany become law the world leader in renewable energy.
A left wing think tank the Center for American Progress is thrilled with Germany Spain China.
Have seized the energy opportunity but the United States risk getting left behind.
Sounds terrible bureau cleaning their clock in the new field of renewable energy.
But one of the left -- European environmentalist Bjorn Lundberg says oops apparently we in Europe are the ones who've been getting our clocks cleaned.
You're -- you help pay for this -- what do you mean what we're we're certainly.
Paying a very large amount of money to.
How be bragging rights Erfurt Germany having the most solar -- having the most wins the Germans are spending about a 110.
Billion dollars on subsidies through these solar panels the net effect of all of those investments will be to postpone global warming.
By 37 hours by the -- the -- All those billions for 37 hours -- so they will remember eleven at 2100 and say well you believe in global warming and what can raise real and it is something we need to fix we should fix it smartly.
And not in a very very costly way as we're doing right now.
Germany is probably spending 660.
Dollars for every ton of -- -- -- cutting.
And remember the benefit of it was about.
Five dollars per -- iPad deal and even your foolish politicians in -- -- -- saying I guess that made a mistake and they're cutting back their curbing it but unfortunately they're not by any means facing out as the weighed too proud.
Of their they're creating green jobs.
And that's another one of those things you know when you say.
We're creating green jobs sure if you give lots and lots -- subsidies you're inevitably gonna get jobs but where you gonna -- it from -- -- -- -- with higher taxes elsewhere.
Which of course is gonna shed jobs each green job -- a 175000.
Dollars each -- job now.
-- did the bizarre thing is if you really want drops and you can make an argument in neck in a crisis to subsidize jobs in the short run.
You can get many many -- more jobs if you focused on.
Our hospitals or other things where you would also -- a lot of great benefits and more -- You dispute this.
Use wind power to create the same amount of energy is one nuclear -- you need Windmills that would cover the state of Rhode Island all of it.
Would you have to remember is wind turbines are much much less efficient partly because they take up a lot of space and there are more efficient -- -- Yes they're more efficient but also simply because they only you know work about 14 of the time so you need to build a lot of backup power.
Again the point here is to say.
They're fuel is free so potentially we could get to a situation where would actually benefit -- be beneficial but we -- not there yet.
But were spending like we are yes and that's the real depressing situation a lot of people are now saying.
Global warming is real so we gotta do something now.
Well actually no global warming -- so we've got to find Smart ways of making sure we had everybody -- not just rich well meaning.
Germans and Danes.
But that we can also find technology so be so cheap that the Chinese and the Indians -- buy into these technologies so this is about just like everything else about innovation.
If we get cheap green energy everyone will buy as long as it's expensive we need to subsidize that.
And if it gets practical.
All of -- I don't know the tax month.
Thank you Bjorn please stay with us because I keep hearing wonderful things about electric car famous people happen.
But you say the green cars have a dirty little secret that's.
We can break our dependence on -- would biofuels.
Become the first country to have a million electric vehicles on the road by 2050.
-- -- -- Not very enthusiastically but he did applaud the president saying a million electric vehicles would help us break our dependence on oil.
That's a popular idea.
Actor Leonardo DiCaprio is proud he owns one of these the -- or karma hybrid electric car that can go a 145 miles per hour.
Great DiCaprio can afford the 100000 dollar to cost token Justin Bieber he has won two.
George Clooney but this electric car for a hundred grand but sold back to the company.
Maybe because that only goes thirty miles before it needs -- new charge.
Still electric cars just appeal -- They give off no emissions that's why there are great alternative to oil burning car says Brian win.
He's president of the electric drive transportation association.
An electric -- lobbying group.
Bjorn lumber and those skeptical environmentalist -- back because he's skeptical just wrote a column titled green -- have a dirty little.
A dirty secret what.
-- John -- they don't emit any CO2 on the road but the problem is partly.
When should produce them they actually emit a lot of -- to.
Because a lot of energy goes into the production especially the battery.
So in a sense half of all the emissions that are coming out of the electric car has already been emitted when you quiet.
In the second half of course there's -- is like 30000 pounds of carbon dioxide to make the car vs less than half that hurt ordinary car exactly.
And then the other half is yes you're zeros -- -- Sarah -- on the road but you still need to recharge it.
And most of our electricity still comes from fossil fuels so the real point here is to say.
Electric cars right now I'm just not ready to really help us cut carbon emissions in a big way and it's a very inefficient way of doing.
So Brian he's basically saying that that you have pulled off a scam getting all these subsidies for electric cars.
Well I disagree with his numbers clearly.
You know Bjorn is is using a study which is is not new it's actually an -- -- study.
If you challenge basically any of the assumptions in the study.
The length of that you keep the car.
Size of the battery pack the grid -- etc.
it changes the results dramatically so it's bad numbers and then bad numbers out in using bad numbers.
Well listen it's the latest study that we have.
And what it tells us -- sure if you drive a lot longer in their studies out there that are talking about electric cars driving 180000.
Miles and then yes you will.
Cut carbon emissions significantly.
But let's just be honest most of these -- cars certainly that people can afford for instance that belief will drive 73 miles before it needs the recharge.
That's not an obvious way to get people to drive a lot Bryant MIT technology review did right.
Don't drive your Nissan -- too much.
We do have.
Vehicles on the road early model vehicles electric vehicles that have.
-- actually driven over 200000 miles before they've given up the ghost and some -- out there so.
These are vehicles than the average vehicle you know we estimate is in the fleet for -- 130 miles.
There -- -- all of these vehicles -- warranty for -- thousand miles.
So you know I I think we -- need to be a little bit more realistic about what we're talking about.
-- let's move to point to them.
Let's say it lasts for 200000 miles -- plugging -- in your burning electricity.
Often made from coal.
How does that help.
It helps actually no matter what you're using to generate your electricity.
And let's be clear we're not using -- were using less and less coal particularly with the price of natural gas falling.
And then in English and dish or using renewables as well but no matter what you're using for your -- plugging your car -- -- better than using gasoline.
Your ball Bryant and if if I could just you're absolutely right and we agree that if you.
Drive your electric car.
You'll emit less seeded two then a future of your diesel -- your gasoline car.
The real issue here is how much does -- cut our car then Sabin and tons of carbon.
How how much -- carbon dioxide cuts from an electric car.
Well I think the debate was actually on the manufacturing and and essentially latest polling so well what are you saying.
You what -- -- estimates are saying are basically that you're manufacturing numbers are probably.
Two to three times what the actual manufacturing is going to be.
The other thing that's interesting about the -- here you're answering his question in total let's taking your manufacturing numbers and then use numbers if I to be a good guy and be green by electric car how much less carbon elect but now.
You're you're you're using only marginally more carbon and the production of the car look the only thing that's different about these cars they have vastly fewer moving parts.
It's basically -- batteries that are essentially different.
And instead you're putting some a little bit more carbon into that car are much in total how are you using gasoline over the life of the gasoline and over its life how much less carbon in my getting used to buy buy your car.
Again we get back into the assumptions game here and they -- somehow -- pencil.
You you want me to do math on the program is that -- that I'm -- put my -- basically -- number which is my my best case for the best case forward is it no matter where you -- this car -- It's cleaner from a greenhouse gas point of view -- From go even using gasoline.
Even using coal to create your electricity -- your point is that even if we generously assume I'm -- -- a lot less carbon.
-- affect global warming.
Very very little.
I mean I'm I'm I'm kind of disturbed with -- franks -- because you're just not justifying anywhere close to the cost that we are paying.
-- 7500 dollars we're paying in subsidies and that's what I did my little touch -- that's why I have to ask several thousand dollars every time.
-- an electric car.
The purely for stars are good let them pay for -- herself.
-- is terrific that Leo is driving that car.
You know I'm not I'm not a celebrity I'm driving one of these cars as well that's why don't -- to pay for your car.
I didn't ask you to basically what it but the federal government essentially is very mindful the president.
Some of our biggest reporters but our our supporters by the way are Republicans because they understand that more than a billion dollars a day is flowing out of this country to support.
Our addiction to basically -- what will have a policy shelves early -- capitalist -- but why should I spend.
7000 dollars subsidizing you.
The reason why it's worth basically investing federal dollars in this is because.
We want to lead the world in this technology and there's no question now think Bjorn is is disputing the fact.
Electric driving is.
The drive train in the future it's vastly more efficient than -- combustion engine.
It's better for the environment it's better for energy security and it's better for our competitive position in the world so why not -- He says you agree this is the technology of the future yes or no we should invest in getting those technologies much better but right now though -- -- just very expensive.
Thank you -- coming up my mind there are here in New York wants.
To hand this it's too big he said that got publicity but now Mayor Bloomberg has a new winner.
What's the -- -- -- -- -- -- -- of what you see this.
My -- says foam cups like this are environmentally destructive.
And outside the studio people agree.
Styrofoam is absolutely horrible for the environment getting -- -- -- -- and decrease.
Throughout the world ending which is healthy environment a -- -- that -- just -- -- -- Paper you know what's wrong with that many things says Angela -- -- from the Competitive Enterprise Institute.
What why that is there's there's a cost to sending this out fitted.
Garbage disposals and well John -- worry about the environment those cuts are better than paper -- Their -- and efficiently Mayor Bloomberg is just -- I don't know what his issue is but he's incorrect about the energy profiled -- school what -- me more energy efficient.
Well to make them and to use -- and to dispose of them than thirty times more energy efficient and have.
Then a paper cup but the -- says he's got a ship.
But to a landfill somewhere and that cost the city millions of dollars he's gonna save us -- Well where they shipping the paper cups the ship in -- of the landfill to this doesn't get recycled easily.
Neither I don't think the paper cups to either -- there's no easy answer but.
Even even -- like these so what I -- I like them.
I don't burn my hands the are more energy efficient and you know what the less expensive.
Which is good for New York City businesses.
This is going to be -- huge cost to businesses including the government agencies which are gonna spent eleven million more dollars Greenland study.
To buy paper cent of the foam -- Well people are at least starting to wake up to some of the excesses of the nanny state most people we interviewed were skeptical about Bloomberg's proposed -- I think that he should really let people do what they want I think he should just -- take -- nose and it was business.
These are successful for a reason.
Absolutely people are buying them present cheaper and a cheaper because he's less energy.
And they're also later so if you're putting him in the landfill -- going to be a lot easy to transport just.
Like paper cups -- -- going to land fill these are just going to be that much less energy -- to get -- there.
There's a myth about landfills -- that we -- drowning in garbage running out of space yes we could fit an awful lot of trash in one small relatively small landfill.
A thousand years -- according to researchers and -- be no problem no consequences their knowledge and are mentally she's.
If you're seeing all America's garbage generated could fit in one pile of wood Ford and more on our -- -- if -- miles.
And it's not really big thing when you look at it in perspective and some -- compete to get garbage to -- losing money on landfills they build golf -- -- you know happened in new -- I'm originally from New York from my garbage.
I was in Europe is going to my home state now which is Virginia.
And it's -- it's been used to build schools to help a lot of rural communities that has nothing it's been a boon an economic boon.
But people don't like to bring it sounds even though they -- need an avalanche over there when I want to go find and I had to ask for directions nobody knew was there.
Once street vendor told us it would cost him so much more she couldn't useful I was there and only maybe a hundred dollars more.
Supplement vessel up I -- because it keeps the food warm -- of the woman's -- vessel by defender Greg didn't that you can still enjoy the new.
I'm friends unquote when I have when he fed thus the Muslim aligned it I don't want to be -- thank you get a -- food but those if they put on about them.
Adults is -- and he welcomed enjoying.
If he may have to switch to these old little.
Are not -- is that you're definitely going to take a lot more energy and these are hot to -- absolutely.
One personally ask about -- made an interesting point about another form of green -- -- actually offers images does ban on plastic bags.
A ban on plastic bags and San Francisco is not alone Seattle a bunch of other places have done this Austin, Texas.
Problem what's wrong with that.
Well you know we don't think about the unintended consequences sometimes.
Researchers -- university Pennsylvania this study.
And they noticed that the hospital admissions for bacteria related illnesses went up 25% after the -- In San Francisco more people got sick from food poisoning.
Because people use reusable bags and their these bags harbor disease so it's very probable that people may have died because of a silly ban.
And another unintended consequence in Seattle storm -- complaining about an increase in shoplifting as people come in and in and -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Always -- mean well I think Bloomberg means well but there are unintended consequences and these politicians are air against and we should have limited government thank you.
And -- for working for the Competitive Enterprise Institute which understands that.
Up next climate change.
This is a huge huge.
Planetary crisis we got to transform our energy system away from fossil fuel is overwhelming the signs overwhelming said that -- question.
It's not even -- -- general well then I'm ready to my raft here but it might just falling for more green tyranny.
When we return.
We've got to transform our energy system away from fossil fuel.
Cut greenhouse gas emissions.
Move to energy efficiency move to sustainable energy is overwhelming the signs overwhelming -- a question.
The science is overwhelming.
Overwhelming about what exactly certainly.
I agree with back releases its overwhelming that there earth is warming most scientists agree about that.
It's why we have this crap.
But not just in case but Beck also believes that may and is the cause of -- warming is the science settled about that.
Climate change it's always has always will change before me.
Is man causing it -- global warming a crisis and can we do anything about.
Those are the big questions so let's have a debate about that.
Roy Spencer is a climatologist at the University of Alabama he's skeptical about man causing global warming.
To debate him we have.
Well actually we have an empty chair we ask a dozen scientists who were concerned about man causing global warming to debate Roy.
Most refutes the Union of Concerned Scientists says that debating you -- it would.
Be doing the public a disservice because it would give your extreme.
It's always say that it's it's how your -- is this wacky extremist cause you for.
Mentioned John -- I don't deny that there's been warming in fact I don't even deny that some of the warming.
Is due to mankind what I deny is that we have any clue how much of the warming whether it's 10% or -- percent I don't think we have a clue.
Parts of before we hear from me you are wanna hear from both sides of this issues so we did find a scientist who was alarmed about man cause a global warming who was willing that.
Talk about this as long as it was not a debate so.
Roy get lost go away if you would take a seat over there and let's welcome NASA scientists Gavin Schmidt.
After Schmidt come on any work for the god heard.
I would never -- the institute for space studies which is a mass of seats in New York City.
All right so why is Roy Spencer wrong in saying we're not sure about man causing.
You might at that point and Iran you said -- -- changes to a time hasn't has gone for many many different reasons it's changed because we've had big volcano is this change because the sun has changed it's changed because they've been over to won't loose in the Earth's path around the sun that is cause like I say just a common goal or those things are totally true so we've -- we've looked in the sun.
It's not something looked a bouquet and -- is -- -- we've looked at me over is not what does not build it this time it's not the graphics.
But what we've been doing the last 150 years we've been increasing amount of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere.
Over 40% in terms of content outside -- more than doubled the amount to meet famous and not a greenhouse gas.
And the signatures of those changes are very very clear all the way through the system.
Assuming this is true.
Why is it necessarily a problem warmer might be better more people die from cold -- warmth.
We have built a society.
An agricultural system and cities and everything that we do.
Based on assumptions the basically the timing is not gonna change the fact that we have so much.
Infrastructure right near the actual.
Is is because we didn't expect the sea level to rise the damage that we -- from -- concern -- was increased because sea level has increased by.
You know ten to twelve inches in this area.
President Obama's long wildfires are increasing hurricanes.
Are increasing drought.
Is this true I thought these things it always happen that this is.
Alarm is -- -- agree with that.
So there -- some.
Things that we can look at and we can say okay -- change.
He waits we're having more extreme heat waves over a wide area aren't -- you mentioned sandy.
Okay how are things there's more uncertainty in this science park and -- -- increasing.
It's a -- a tricky thing americans' second and taste of this graph of hurricanes by decade and they failed to show an increase wrecked so I didn't I didn't say it it.
But we -- more intense rainfall that's very clear over the -- of the US of -- Europe and then and did not.
And in other places as well now what's going on.
In the future that's what we're concerned about because so what do we do what kill if for a mobile we're doing right now is not -- what we're doing right management increasing amount of come outside every year -- -- -- what do we do about it we won't we like.
Burning fossil fuels not what is doing you know you'd like the product of burning fossil fuels like you mentioned we thought earlier on about how -- -- -- -- waters when there was I'm restricted burning of coal.
Right we don't like actually -- -- -- what we'd like he's the energy that comes from -- Right what we like his energy and we like Eric she can't even if we cut our emissions in half.
-- wouldn't affect the world O what did you tell you if we tell our missions -- Ali it would be a tenth of the world CO tell.
They're gonna cut -- half.
Well eventually we will look -- eventually this is going to be a problem.
That is so large that we will transition to any more -- isn't cutting India's Tata that's a big problem and then not gonna take can lead on this because we haven't taken -- why should we make poor people suffer I don't usually painful secrets can make.
Fuel cost more that hurts poor people and you get it back as a rebates and you make people.
That what we need to do is move off.
Carbon sources of fuel I'm not qualified to debate you climatologists.
Why want to debate Roy Spencer he's -- a flaky -- help produce the data edit that.
The government uses for atmospheric temperatures I'm I'm I'm not a I'm not a politician you know I'm here because you asked me to come on talk -- -- -- -- -- -- totally happy to -- -- -- any -- you -- -- again.
Just give me a cool -- come here how will tell you about the science -- -- when you in the right direction.
But I'm not interested in doing this because it's good TV I'm interested because what we've discovered as a scientific community.
Needs to be talked about it and -- talk about it and when you still but it -- -- when he took it but I don't need to be arguing with people just to make good TV.
Thank you Gavin Schmidt I appreciate you coming in I would love to have you back and if you would give the chair up again let's bring Roy Spencer -- to reply to what you said or stay if you like -- non interest and but thank you very much.
Doctor Spencer could you.
So what do you say what he sets and well Gavin said quite a bit.
I agree with some of what he says mom I speak out because I believe that for seen.
Energy solutions upon the poor it is -- -- kill people.
We know that poverty kills that's not theoretical it happens today.
I would rather -- safe people today from poverty.
Then theoretically save people in the future you've also said that carbon dioxide -- can make the planet greener.
Well that's pretty well understood there's hundreds of papers that have been published by plant physiologist.
That show that increasing CO2 is good for basically all the plants that they study even.
Crops like court.
My long term prediction is that eventually we're gonna realize that more CO2 in the atmosphere is actually -- good thing and considering the fact.
That it is necessary for life on earth to have CO2 in the atmosphere it's amazing how little there is in the atmosphere.
The perception among my friends here in New York is that your this weird Al wire.
And all the other serious scientists say man is doing -- we've got to fix it now.
Well I hate to say it but that's you know a characterization -- -- -- come about because of the media.
I mean people like Al Gore -- portrayed.
People like me as fringe and when in fact I won't debate anybody well no of course not I consider my views pretty mainstream and I know there's a lot of climate challenging years in a lot of people I find a lot of people that agree with me but will not speak out because they're afraid that they might lose their funding all you hear from on the other side for me.
Our scientists who have decided to take a stand.
Get involved with the politicians.
And you say this is big problem that's when you get money don't address the problem -- congress doesn't give money out for things that are not problems.
Thank you doctor Roy Spencer.
Coming up the side of the argument you rarely hear how most horrible fossil fuels gas oil even -- make our planet.
-- says the next guest.
Watching TV news reading the papers you'd assume.
-- most horrible hateful thing going on in America.
These are burning fossil fuels.
I'm told were destroying the earth burning gas oil coal and we burned more than other countries the National Audubon Society says there is no greater threat to our environment.
But my next guest scientific -- Matt -- says the opposite is true.
That be -- case.
Well if you think about it women burning fossil -- it means we're not -- summing elsewhere and all but cutting down forests and so on.
And the mole we burn fossil fuels the -- we can.
At produce fertilizer that means we use less land to grow our food so we can spell land for forests and there's actually.
Net -- increase in a lot of the world particularly America.
But it over and above that was a fascinating new discovery which is that the world as a whole is getting green.
Places I think Amazon rainforest are actually getting green and the reason is partly because we're putting more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere or not makes -- -- -- -- let's break that down.
It it in general there is less farmland and more land returned to forest.
Because we -- Oil coal instead of -- New England used to be 70% from now -- -- now 70% forest countries like Bangladesh and growing more -- -- a new satellite which measures.
The the greening of the and it's finding that about 20% of the -- is getting -- -- 3% is getting brown not.
That and about half of that effect is coming from the carbon dioxide that we're putting into the from burning fossil fuels.
So -- it truly the burning of fossil fuels is helping the rain -- in the Amazon to -- Now you know that's a very unwelcome message for the environmental movement -- just happens to be true -- a very nice example of this which is the the border between Haiti and the Dominican Republic.
The Dominican probably is pretty green -- is very brown.
I hate you almost totally deforested the reason is because that is -- literally flying between the two countries just looking from the satellite we screen -- -- on the satellite you can see it in in an aerial photograph.
And and the reason is because -- team relies on wood for -- for -- not any domestic fuel but for industrial fuel to where's the Dominican Republic uses fossil fuels.
And -- actually -- subsidizes the use of propane is a cooking fuel so that people want god into the forest and cut countries to make charcoal to cook over.
-- as a make clear example of how.
You -- that the use of -- who's actually good for the environment.
In the propane comes from the natural gas which we're discovering much more of -- of course it would be better in terms of global warming if it really is a threat if we could burn less.
Oil and use more wind power solar power perhaps but.
It's such a joke when you look at our current energy use we have a graphic that I don't think people little bit.
Three fourths of our energy comes from those horrible fossil fuels.
Nuclear 10% wind and solar are a tiny fraction.
I left out hydropower which -- when the -- but.
Where we're nowhere close to getting rid of -- That's right and and I mean it wind is just an irrelevance in this argument you'll go on on about how it saves them on the planet actually needs a huge amount landscape even if we -- to the -- of Australia would wind turbines we still wouldn't be able to make much of of a difference.
So a lot of these -- new polls are really not making a dent in the problem.
The public doesn't buy this at all -- com.
Well that and we've spent so long demonizing fossil fuels over the last few decades that no one that people think the -- the root of all evil.
But you know when you think about it it's not even just the environment things like slavery -- because we made energy -- it became possible to get rid of slavery.
-- -- said that the humanitarian effects of what she'd -- very very imposed Florida Q how how did cheap energy health and slavery.
Because you use machines and so the people basically you know once once energy's chief YouTube you invent more machinery you you have.
Factories running and that that saying look I don't -- is cheaper than hiring lots of people you know so it does actually.
On the whole it it undermines also that getting cheap energy you -- have cheap and I though you have cheap energy.
And basically it's nice -- for people if we have cheap energy.
Thank you Matt Ridley for that unconventional with some.
And that's our show thank you for watching C -- next week.
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