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General Michael Hayden, former CIA and NSA director, weighs in on whether we should fear governments or terrorists regarding cyber espionage.
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Threat with a look at cyber espionage and our last our college Jane talked with -- -- former national cyber security director.
Who had this dire warning for us.
The median that was designed for openness flexibility and information sharing and there's many more of that going on and we really wanna -- But the reality is if you're connected to -- vulnerable.
If you're connected you're vulnerable and joining us now got general Michael Hayden former CIA director.
Former national security Director General -- is now principal of the Chertoff group but global security advisory firm thanks for being with -- general Hayden.
Bob who the biggest players that we have to fear in cyber espionage and are -- governments or they terror.
It's.
No what we're seeing right now -- is primary threat in espionage.
Coming from governments bella all nations by including our own good.
What the Chinese doing is unprecedented.
In its scale.
And it's unprecedented.
In its targets I mean they -- after just state secrets they're going after industrial and trade secrets in a way we've never seen before.
Now the Pentagon I believe last year adopted a policy saying to foreign governments.
Our our our enemies basically if you hacked into defense systems we look at that -- equivalent to an act of war.
Do we need to establish a more serious repercussion for hacking into private.
Networks.
-- Well -- see you you've hit a very important problem here is.
We just don't have a good understanding.
Even among ourselves as to what constitutes warfare.
Espionage or accepted international practice when it.
When it comes to -- cyber domain.
And what we're seeing now with regard to the Chinese and he just picture this this is a nation state with all the power of a nation state.
Not attacking another nation state but attacking American industry that's -- an incredibly.
Uneven playing field.
And I for one believe that they're now have to be consequences.
For Chinese action.
Not in terms of warfare -- perhaps not even in terms of shooting back in the cyber domain.
They're doing this for economic advantage so I think there should be costs for the Chinese in their economic relationship with the United States.
-- -- that report came out recently from from anti.
Well -- -- securities saying a 141 companies thousands of attacks over the past six years.
Traceable to almost the doorstep of the people's liberation.
Army of China what surprised me though it's what can legally get corporate -- but not in the design of a router for the Internet.
They're also getting into electrical grids and I wonder what they aren't testing for the ability to shut one down in case of -- war with the US.
Yes that's a real danger a real concern a lot most of what's going on out there right now Dennis is espionage -- stealing our stuff.
That's bad enough.
But there isn't much to us -- on what we call a skated -- and industrial control and an information grid.
Their presence there is very troubling because in this cyber domain if you could penetrate -- gas system.
And live on an undetected for a long period of time the next extract data from it.
You already have sufficient control over that system to affect -- -- so the fact that -- even in these different networks is very very troubling.
Indeed the -- report that came out of -- to a ghost said some of these attacks have been going on for a period of years without the host target company.
Even realizing it.
And you got to wonder here you know it seems like we've got this Bermuda Triangle you've got vendors who don't want to have to take on the extra cost them more bullet proofing.
You've got customers who don't wanna pay the extra cost and you've got government who should pay general Hayden when -- we gonna work this out it's been over this -- been here for a decade.
Not know it really has but I but I think now -- I've Dennis I've seen this in my four years since I've left government service.
I've seen this problem now my grade in American industry from the CIO and the CTO.
Up to the top deck this is now a serious problem for CEOs and seeing -- lows they now see this as an important part.
Of doing business if they expect to do business in the cyber domain so I do see.
Businesses strapping on more responsibility.
To defend themselves -- Dennis.
Businesses can only get so far.
I've told you there -- -- nation states out there attacking us business has a certain responsibility -- take most of the nuisance attacks off the table.
But frankly when it comes to defending them against a nation state our government has to do more to.
Well let's hope they get this fixed general Hayden before the next crisis rather -- -- -- -- -- an excellent thanks so much for being with us today -- thank you.
And -- -- report on the cyber threat throughout the week.
