This transcript is automatically generated
It's Super Bowl weekend -- get a better in the game.
Watch out your government may punish you.
Hello even your poker game may be illegal don't think fire right away from what government -- -- band things like ticket scalping.
Please -- -- we've got to get these resellers out of the process.
Some people in the -- -- mixed martial our -- -- -- really need -- -- Does that mean and performance enhancing drugs working and with so much money in sports should college stars be okay.
Now definitely yeah let's ask a key moment.
What is government ran sports notes he would be able to because.
Big sports big business that's our show tonight.
Sunday zillions of you will make a bet on the Super Bowl.
Trouble is if your Baltimore fan and your team is expected to -- so how can you make a bet that's Tierney.
By taking the point spread which at the moment about three and a half points -- -- San Francisco could win and you could still win your -- Baltimore.
This makes betting more interest -- and makes watching the game more -- Except.
Where does that -- spread come from.
From bookings professional bet takers and it's illegal in most of America.
And yet these point spreads are everywhere and billions will be -- on this year's game most of it illegally isn't it time we legalize gambling.
I asked people in Times Square.
Should betting on sports bail -- man.
The U encourages.
People for people to spend money they don't have.
America's politicians agree and they banned many forms of gambling like gambling on the Internet.
They say things like it's not far right moral choice or sound public policy.
There aren't often dysfunctional families.
The my guests tonight say the government should get out of the way Annie Duke is a former professional poker player.
Patrick -- -- is the author of gambling how healthy.
I'm healthy that's what -- talking about I mean I liked to gamble but I don't think it's health.
The hello it's real healthy it's healthy for the individual it's healthy for society.
But you haven't heard this narrative this -- before bill because.
The the research money.
Is goes to those people who say look society's going to held a hand basket I for moral reasons or because -- -- -- -- addicted problem gambling.
But the truth is the evidence doesn't back that up it gives us -- wonderful entertainment wonderful recreation could be that bad I get gives recreation the housing healthy.
It's healthy because it helps solve brains and it helps the hearts.
Older folks who play bingo very popular.
Does that -- now proof that it helps -- stay.
Alzheimer's a degenerative brain disease really you're laughing but it's true the evidence is -- but the evidence hasn't been look for.
Because there's no government funding in making this argument.
And you losses say it teaches kids everybody about risk about probability.
If we gamble we learn.
To deal with -- understand risk and that's why I think actually kids should start to appreciate -- earlier rather than it being held off.
Right any you don't buy this.
Healthy part but.
It's not much weather had -- -- likely them teaching decision making I talk about probability names gambling example open and things like that I think that there -- some used to it.
But I don't think it's germane to the argument and fact I think it when people are arguing things like we should ban it because it's -- moral.
Our because there's some sort of general harm to society where they're not really identifying that a person is doing direct harm to anyone they're sort of going stepped back -- the serve a more excess.
Societal harm that when you start arguing the other side and tame but there's good things about gambling.
That -- lending weight to the arguments that really.
Should be germane to the legislative ship.
But the problem is.
That the moral argument against gambling is going out of political -- normal people like to gamble and a keen on and support people being free to gamble.
So what the public health folks who've done.
Is they've taken cues from tobacco and obesity -- say this is a medical problem.
If the cost all of society.
Money -- senator and any -- -- professional poker player you've seen this sort of casino sleaze and Charlie -- smoking some people.
-- lose all their money.
It's it's true -- it's a very small minority such less than 1% of the people who engage in any kind of gambling activities that.
I have a gambling problem and that's compared to alcohol where seven -- 9% of people for example -- -- alcohol has issues.
It's a really really small problem but.
Even if those people are having problems they're making those choices for themselves as consensual adults.
They're not hurting anybody and I don't think we're supposed to legislate to protect some small minority from their own bad decisions you know and hurt the majority who do it very and a healthy way and they really enjoy it in the same way they enjoy going to a restaurant or going to a -- In cultures like the British -- Australians would have far more Gambia have done for decades.
The problem isn't any greater than -- just it's this so -- that if we legal -- it'll get worse.
I -- -- -- they do -- thought experiment we have if we have gambling on the Internet and it's in people's homes.
Then you know our societal Fargo -- at least I have to go to a casino yeah.
We -- lord hold but then why haven't they done the same thought experiment with online shopping so there's all these people going broke -- online shopping without trying to -- and the truth.
This -- gambling prohibition like any other kind of probation.
People who wanna do it do it anyway -- -- all kinds of avenues to gamble the question is is it legal and regulated in the government gets its share of attacks or is it.
Under the table.
The consumer doesn't have any protection.
It's harder to deal with the problem gamblers and -- -- when it's illegal and they had an -- secret.
I don't -- it's harder to keep children from gambling online when it's really get the well we tried to get opponents.
Tonight and -- they didn't wanna come but at one group stop predatory gambling.
Addicted gamblers are abandoning their children in casino parking lots around the world scare stories -- everywhere.
But it's anecdotal.
The real evidence that shows that extent of the problem is massively overstated.
We never hear about the positive side of gambling which is true and far -- -- -- I think it's is that we don't legislate by an active so.
We do go well definitely should it -- -- we're not supposed to legislate by attic -- fair point.
So you know there was an anecdote that they worries are selling around from Montana about a kid who lost a lot of money gambling online and then robbed a bank -- -- -- that they anecdote that there.
Flinging around but when we look at and they -- blaming that on -- gaming.
When we look it in the UK which has very good statistics on on this kind of thing.
Free Internet gaming being introduced in post there wasn't any increase in the percentage of avid gamblers who had issues so.
These -- the causes of the problems and when we start saying while.
Anytime somebody robs a bank we have to look back at what caused them to do that there was a shopping problem or gambling problem or.
You know whatever was we're gonna be and the thing that that made them make that bad decision.
It's a huge slippery slope what grade and a draw the -- and we have this really good lion are you doing direct harm is -- consensual.
Yeah you know and if we go beyond that sit several steps back like he might hurt your family whenever we're gonna start not letting people -- -- to people who are overweight for example.
Very -- that may become it.
They have very little very little unknown to mr.
American taxpayer they've actually paid for studies by their federal government.
On to what distinguishes gamblers from -- gamblers and the American government found.
This is no different while there is once slight difference not gamblers.
Gamblers are more sociable more neighborly more involved in the community and a more likely donate to charity that was the only -- -- OK I want to see these studies I believe you but I just haven't seen those now Super Bowl week we're talking about legalizing sports -- it.
Lots of opposition from the people who run sports David Stern NBA commissioner for one thing I'm certain of and in New Jersey where they've just passed a law to legalize this has no idea what it's doing it doesn't care as all its interest in and is making -- -- But there's more betting there's more temptation -- fixed on this game.
But even so if you're legalizing it.
Then everything's out in the light -- they're less likely to have that happen and where you actually get more problems is in college sports where they don't pay the -- And -- push to have these -- which we'll talk about later tonight but whether it's sports betting or online gambling it's all about protecting.
Another domestic industry.
The NFL the NBA the National Hockey League the NCAA they've all joined the lawsuit against New Jersey.
Gambling threatens the integrity of sport that's fundamentally it -- with the principle of the outcome of the contest must be perceived by the public.
As being determined solely on the -- -- -- -- Don't they have their heads in the sand canyon gambling is already happening -- you can bet -- -- game in Las Vegas -- in New Jersey you can there's OTB is on every corner.
And there's a tremendous amount of illegal gambling going on if you bring it into the light you -- these things and just pay the players according to what the most it is.
The most ardent supporters of fans of all of those -- you've mentioned.
-- also the most ardent illegal gamblers on the sports.
No we will watch football about the spread it's published in USA today like prevented say they gambling -- somehow hurting the sport isn't it -- that's a completely.
Blake the specious argument -- kids -- people are watching the game because of the spread I.
-- -- -- Are half the states weirdly even banned social gambling and some form a friendly game.
I occasionally play play poker it's still.
Legal in my -- fortunately.
As long as the when profits by running the game and I asked my fellow players about the bands and some states and the band or Internet poker.
We are intelligent enough to know our limits should be the government out of -- mentally and psychologically strong enough -- able to govern ourselves.
-- to liberal wants government to do something the addictive element of gambling.
Forces you know that government to step in because it is addictive -- That's stupid smoking cigarettes is addictive behaviors that don't -- from smoking our home -- probably don't let let us from drinking Hala.
I think club Libby -- guy made the argument that the politicians may -- it protect us from ourselves absolutely because we.
With the adults -- children we are.
Unable to make rational decisions for work for children in the casino they can say oh he's a kid global let -- -- what.
The bigger issue is not whether gambling is that it's what it's a slippery slope that you're getting on when you say that you wanna protect people from their own addictions -- their own.
-- there on bad decisions you have to start banning a lot of things that are bigger problems in front of that.
And then all the -- -- you think that you're protecting differ from mount the on bad decisions that you just have no freedom to -- of -- and and what I think is about to sit -- might be different than what you think it.
One last point of that to me shows the hypocrisy of government.
Is the state lottery then we have state lotteries partly because there were as a number works racket to right.
Organized crime wouldn't.
Let people pick a number and somebody would win a hundred dollars or thousand dollars and can't do this this is gambling we have to stop -- all we can't stop that well maybe if we compete with some since we're legal will drive them out of business and now we have state lotteries and they are worse they take.
50% of the -- right.
And mostly from poor people and they run these disgusting commercials which suggests.
Give up your job make -- and happiness comes from having a lot of money that you didn't occur.
The government the governments cornered the market.
On not bad -- -- -- the commercials and the billboards for lotteries are aimed at port neighborhoods and -- people it's so.
Their -- I am very portion.
Numbers of the tech -- -- different technique for other former economic enterprise when the government runs it.
It doesn't go so well particularly for the consumer in the tax.
That's right and there's no competition on -- lottery so if I go to last phase of this competition on the slot machines the worst slot machine I'm gonna fight fight is taking like five for five cents on the dollar.
The government owns the lottery so they can -- fifty cents on the dollar if -- competitors on that I can guarantee be getting a much higher return on.
Your back five cents from the casino which is a scam I would never took -- how to cut 50%.
From my government thank you any duke and Patrick page show.
Coming up ticket scalping should that be legal what about steroids.
And should college athletes be -- That's next.
Notre Dame linebacker -- anti -- might -- made millions this year.
Even without concocting a fake girlfriend.
Duke basketball forward Mason totally would have made millions still they're worth at least after their colleges -- they're colleges make millions off their services.
Some football teams bring in fifty million dollars in profit selling tickets meteorites -- Alabama's football Coach was paid five and a half million doctors last year.
College sports is big business but the colleges pay the players nothing not -- top players get scholarships they don't have to pay tuition but no cash 'cause college is supposed to be -- lecture time.
And that's not fair since doctor Boyce Watkins a professor of entrepreneurship at Syracuse University so.
Why isn't it fair that's the way it's done.
Well you know I think that the burden of proof is only in -- for the most part.
I think the NCAA is the institution sort of runs college sports and they have a rule no money right.
Well they do give the plays a scholarship right.
My question would be if you went to Nick -- and since we're gonna take away your five million dollar salary and give you.
A free education for you and your family.
How would you feel about I don't think -- good analog Coach who made five and a half Miller asked exactly exactly so.
I think that what we have to realize is that we live in America and we live in society where we have things called labor rights where people are allowed to negotiate their salaries and it doesn't make any sense that you see these games -- -- -- they're making millions of dollars up nobody turns on a college basketball game to see the Coach.
They turned the game on two players so why is that players mother father etc.
not allowed to share in the revenue I think that's -- really important question we have to start asking.
But there's not much of a movement for the few sports writers talk about it but it's not like -- college players are organizing are complaining.
Well they complain they complain if you go into a survey ended the place to speak freely on the issue.
The ones that understand how much money's being made are very resentful of this you remember the fab five from the University of Michigan.
Chris Weber talks all the time about the going to stores and seeing his Jersey on sale 400 dollars and he couldn't afford to go to McDonald's that it.
I I think that that -- a little bit crazy.
I nobody gives a way that kind of money just to be next great you become after going into Egypt I think this this the quickest way to get the fair result would be.
For the players to get to the final four and say look we're not more on the court.
Until you give our family some lose money because guess what if -- show what.
There is no show everybody that -- millions of dollars in these guys they don't get paid and I guarantee that that would bring them to negotiating table pretty quick.
I agree with you that these athletes to -- to be paid should be a market but most Americans do not agree with us.
Here are some we asked should college athletes be paid.
-- -- Now I don't think -- -- Absolutely not why they go to school to learn takeaways for the -- a college sports take away from the greatness of sports they're playing.
For their teen.
Not what -- well you know we live another entity -- free country that has a free labor market.
Where people can go negotiate their salaries if -- -- nine year old kid.
And you're gonna start a Blockbuster -- gonna go and make.
Half a billion dollars they can't just -- with a scholarship.
Right so I I -- how -- they candidates is consenting.
Adult child parent whatever the what -- only get ready for whatever the contract they -- whatever the right whatever the country does that they make and so.
What happens with the considerably in my opinion is that they are allowed to operate.
In a way that controls the labor market.
From it it's a two way that would be illegal almost any other industry Wal-Mart can't get together with target and Kmart and agree to restrict worker salaries to ten dollars an hour they they can't do that.
The -- the Justice Department will step in and so I think that ultimately the incidentally is it's not gonna regulate itself it's not gonna improve itself.
An outside force is gonna have to come in and busted up and say you look either do this the right way.
We're doing a different way -- didn't turn this into professional sports league if you want or go back to the fundamentals of academic integrity which I think is it is equally equally far.
We did try to get the NCAA.
Appear in this program to defend its position but they didn't call us back I'm not surprised that -- from the -- -- only came to defend their point of view.
These I believe they know they're wrong Walter -- the former executive director once he left his post.
Came out and said look these guys should get paid like everybody else.
And it's funny that everybody who says that the players shouldn't give -- money most of these people -- making tons -- money.
Of the commentators in the -- they still say -- we -- money to pay the players but they always have money to give -- coaches million dollar salaries so.
I think that build the love of the game is a wonderful thing I think most of these athletes have that split that we have to agree that it's wrong that.
This did -- -- -- star player who school's gonna make twenty million dollars of if he leads the team to a championship and the Coach is gonna get this huge bonus if he wins.
But yet the -- mother can't even come to the game because you can afford bus ticket.
-- for the game idea and I've seen that and I -- and that's patently unfair.
I asked the famous football Coach Lou -- about this since you're ripping these players off he said we're not ripping a law -- -- giving them an opportunity.
To get an education.
That's valuable and to perfect their skills -- the NFL could get away with paying its athletes with scholarships.
-- -- kind of a joke with the NCAA makes money on par with the NFL the NBA Major League Baseball etc.
so I think it's time for them to acknowledge themselves what they really are they are professional sports -- -- -- -- all the time that -- say.
I expect my athletes to be professionals and I've been on college -- -- for twenty years.
And from what I've seen.
An athlete lives a different life they have a difference -- -- pressures than most of the student body.
They're told to take certain courses.
Their time is all in practice oh yeah I've seen players.
Come to me and -- we know I wanted to major in engineering but my football Coach told me that that doesn't fit with my football schedule.
If they were paid given the crazy laws we already have in America there could be some odd wrinkles which should -- will have brought up.
He said if football players are paid.
Female field hockey players must be -- because of title nine gender equity mandates but I don't have a problem gender equity but I do think that allowing for labor rights or maybe even allowing players the the to to be released from the restriction that keeps them from going.
Outside the university get paid.
If if if I'm a star of the basketball team and I can go to the local car dealership.
And say -- Bob cars and Bob will pay me money to do that.
Why cannot go do that.
Why should I be forced to live in poverty because there's -- -- stack the rules as high protecting the NC double -- revenue stream.
When you need that many rules to protect someone's money.
Chances are you do once -- shouldn't be doing.
Thank you know voice up next some athletes improve their performance by taking steroids.
Of course our government says -- -- job for congress.
-- -- Everyone in baseball is responsible.
The owners the commissioner the union and the players we want steroids and other dangerous drugs out of sports.
I think Lance Armstrong is a despicable slug.
Not because he injected drugs like testosterone owner did blood doping to improve his performance I don't care of an adult those things like that.
I need Lance Armstrong because he cheated and then threaten people have the civil.
If they told the truth he's a liar and a bullet.
But the drugs themselves so -- -- even know -- there illegal or the government's business.
But as usual my opinion is minority opinion.
Should the government investigate steroids in sports I this -- of course everyone should be drug tested and it harm -- For the future of our nation the government has to take a stand.
To show that there is no cheating if anything.
For the future of our nation government must take a -- nick Gillespie from reason TV disagrees.
But why if an athlete.
Hopes his blood he's -- it.
Well you're right that Lance Armstrong is a liar and a bully but I think it's it's categorically wrong to focus on performance enhancing drugs.
As the only way in which athletes gain unfair -- competitive edges.
Over there colleagues I mean there were times in the fifties and sixties were track coaches.
Came up with innovative training regimes that they kept secret or they only used on their athletes is that an unfair competition.
Is using certain types of technology Greg LaMont -- was -- -- -- the longtime critic.
Bicycle rider who was the first American to win the -- of France.
Huge critic of Lance Armstrong.
He beat a French toward France champion by using technological advantages.
That the Frenchman chose -- -- -- could run materials.
Exactly and by the way the Frenchman he'd he'd actually used drugs he later admitted to both using steroids and amphetamines so.
The idea that drugs are this kind of magic pill level take any of us serve immediately you know to the top of the toward a friend stylist.
Just -- -- true but then they -- vilified because I think people are afraid of drugs and whether or not afraid of eating certain types of diets were training or whatever.
I would add to your list of performance and answers laser eye surgery trigger words improved his vision and presumably improved his game that's right and why why isn't that considered as morally reprehensible -- there have been baseball pitchers.
Who have had reconstructive surgery on their throwing arms -- afterwards are actually looked throw faster than they used to be.
Is that bad and I mean I think we have to understand that athletes are competitors first informants than they're always looking for a managed.
And the fact is particularly in something like the -- -- France going back to 1903.
People have been doping the entire existence.
Of the race the only difference is that in the mid sixties it became illegal but the activity has never ceased.
-- source from the one place he didn't have a competitive advantage over his his competitive set was -- using drugs because they all use them.
But what about the cheating part some don't use some -- -- -- caught people.
Spoke diving -- -- all -- in in.
Bicycle racing apparently there were -- -- I mean it is that a virtually ubiquitous in various things like professional sports and whatnot the other baseball foot I don't think they're all using if some do.
Some don't it's a form of cheating a well again I think it's it's better to think about it is it is it cheating if people do extra sprints at the end of a long practice if they do weight unless things really -- -- and one's legal -- but these these are often arbitrary distinctions because not all drugs are -- rather certain drugs -- -- and so for instance somebody like Mark -- the great baseball slugger.
He was openly using certain types of performance enhancing drugs those were considered legal a couple of years later.
They're not anymore and so.
It it becomes a very kind of gray area once you start drawing bright lines about this is to legal and moral this is illegal and cheated.
Another difference people say these drugs.
People into freaks they really.
Are dangerous sending your -- stuff while they you know there's there are two ways to think about that one is that we'd like to see freaks we like to see freaks like Lance Armstrong.
In -- would freak of nature.
The better he was at cycling however he got that way the more people watched that -- France when we have people who weren't as good as him.
Fewer people watch so that's not a bad thing.
But that there is no question that a lot of people and a lot of athletes do real damage to their bodies by using drugs.
If you care about that the first thing you should do is ban athletics because.
You know the problem with the football player is not that he's taking some steroids the problem is that he's banging his head against the brick wall you -- for his entire professional career.
If you want to make the drugs safer and if you want to make the usage more wise.
You should bring it up above ground so that doctors and coaches and advisors can openly deal with what's going on what works what doesn't work -- kind of regulated not by government but by common practice and best practice.
And how would that work as I look at the list of things that the people say can be caused by say steroids and home.
Goes from acne and -- shrinkage to diabetes diarrhea kidney damage and death I don't disagree with what -- saying but that is already happening so nothing nothing gets made better and nothing gets made safer by saying.
This is completely illegal so the only people who will be available who will be available to our people who are risk takers who we're gonna do it in the in the -- she darkness -- And if -- were legal there would be sports that would say none of this some would say yes she could do what -- have guidelines we have choices and be out in the open and be safe.
Yeah and -- our but there are already cases of that for instance body building which was one of the sports that really kind of mainline steroid use -- at the beginning.
There's a natural circuit and an enhanced circuit and you know that way audiences can choose and athletes can choose and -- generally speaking the more choices people have the better we all -- Thank you nick Gillespie of reason magazine coming up.
Government run basket all.
And the beauty of ticket -- And a sport that I love but it's been banned where I live.
-- Martial arts mixed because it's not just wrestling or boxing it's fighting and to win need to be good at all the martial -- Yes it's violent but so -- boxing's so was football.
In my state new York and in Connecticut boxing and football are legal but mixed martial arts is based it.
I can go to Madison Square Garden to watch boxers smash each other in the face.
I can take little -- -- -- to watch fake wrestling where people pretend to do -- -- things to each other.
And some of the hired help the so -- -- control they do things like this.
I think if -- thank you delegate fight could.
-- that this years ago when a pro wrestler took offense at my pointing out that professional wrestling -- fate -- -- beat me up.
My point is just that I don't understand why boxing and violent fake wrestling is okay.
But mixed martial arts -- -- as it's known is not.
Laurence Epstein wonder still leaves the chief operating officer of the Ultimate Fighting Championship and he joins us from Las Vegas where.
They have a big event this weekend so.
Lawrence why can't I go to U of C event here in my hometown.
Well -- 1997 the New York State Legislature passed a law that sexually vans sport of mixed martial arts.
Frankly the sport that existed back then was very different than the sport that exists here today.
And -- -- all the reforms that have taken placements for everything from the addition of weight classes.
Time limits for rounds proper health and medical safety testing for all the athletes the sport the frankly exist today is not the same sport.
That existed in 1997 however the law that -- in 97 is still in effect today.
For the last five years we've been trying to if that overturned in and of course have the State of New York -- sport of mixed martial arts.
And that's why don't get -- -- fifteen years.
Your organization is -- and tons of money in other places benefiting cities it's crippling faster bigger than boxing on TV now.
And yet my state politicians who are supposed to represent me.
-- we're gonna be we in Connecticut.
Where is smarter than the other 48 states before it's an education process you don't educating people about health and safety.
Educating people about economic data that's -- you know years are my politicians -- -- then there are in the rest of the country.
What that would -- what do they say they say you haven't -- our -- you haven't given us enough money.
There's no doubt that the politicians in New York have been very deliberate.
As -- -- taking a look at this issue we need to get a vote on the floor and to date we have not had an opportunity.
On the assembly for floor to give out.
The assembly majority leader said.
I think it's barbaric.
We're taking steps to reduce bullying in schools legalizing MMA would endorse an activity it's blatantly -- that type of statement is something we've heard for for years and years and the reality is when you look at the facts of what the sport is all about.
And our safety record.
Those those comments are just simply incorrect where you are getting smarter about trying to influence my.
Bull headed politicians I see that you sent out your very good looking female champion to negotiate with settlement.
One assemblyman said the proponents are getting savvy here they said the beautiful woman rather than the threatening bulky man.
Was they knew that the -- threatening man.
I really was made but you know -- aroused he is a classic example of what an and that may athlete is all about.
I'm -- is -- a long time IG just GG excuse me a judo Olympic got player.
-- she actually participated in two Olympics and was a bronze medalist in the Sydney Olympics.
So she's a classic example of the quality of individual that now is part of the ultimate fighting organization.
John McCain once called your sports human cock fighting.
-- dog fights cock fights are illegal most states he's changed -- still saying they've cleaned up the sport I -- a lot of fan but they've made progress.
I just wonder you talk to these guys I try not to because they drive me crazy.
Did did they just say we haven't had time devote to what's -- their head they're losing millions of dollars.
Yeah in New York is is a special place and it certainly taking a little bit longer -- it for all this information sink sink in and hopefully it will sink in this year.
More good luck I hope it does thank you -- steps there.
-- -- -- might not appreciate it thank you later we talked billionaire Mark Cuban about what would happen if government grants for.
But next ticket scalping.
What you think you know may now be self.
He got your take it to the Super Bowl.
No it's not too late he can still buy some from a ticket scalper.
Not just those guys -- -- some ticket so hang around outside the stadium.
But Internet sites when called stub hub still has thousands of Super Bowl tickets listed for sale.
Course -- technical sector back a couple thousand box in some cases a 100000.
Which is a reason.
Many people say ticket scalping should be illegal.
Should ticket scalping be loud.
Now I don't think no pound and I'll be offended tied to -- ticket that you can't get a ticket via -- Right -- stub -- buys up thousands of tickets I can't get them to rip off that's -- government should -- scalp neck.
It sometimes -- But economists JC bread Berry says that's just simple minded and counterproductive.
And what are you talking about because this is minority opinion.
Absolutely mean the reality is that we have a limited number of seats.
And a lot more people who want to buy those seats how to reallocate those sometimes tickets are sold far in advance and we don't know how valuable -- those tickets are gonna be what people are gonna -- and that.
And so oftentimes secondary markets -- since the cell.
Those high value tickets at a high price low value take is at a low prices sometimes you can buy below -- face value sometimes above face value is just an arbitrage opportunity that second the secondary market trying to take advantage.
-- why is that good for the consumer.
Well absolutely all what you have here here's some people who have tickets they don't value as much as people who do value them and so a lot of people who sell to so called scalpers.
Are the people.
Who's saying what I don't really wanna go to this as much as someone else I have a friend of mine who has -- season tickets and every year he sells his playoff tickets to find his entire season ticket purchase because.
He -- acting as watches on television.
But that -- the rich get to go to the game since hurts poor people.
Well I mean -- a lot of rich for disparities in the world and people -- worried about rich import disparities I think making -- equality getting tickets -- sort of the bottom level of things we need to be worrying about in some sports teams -- even using the ticket -- what exactly and that's -- was some sports teams are realizing if -- baseball team and you don't think you're gonna be very good -- want season ticket -- to -- -- such a price slope.
All the sudden you have a big game coming to town and you didn't realize it at all these numbers are getting rich off your ticket so what a lot of teams did was.
They -- and said if you're gonna sell your tickets you sell them back to us.
And then will sell them on the secondary market and interest in where this first started was with the Chicago Cubs they have on the smaller stadiums in Major League Baseball only realized.
Hey you know what -- we need to make as much -- we -- we can be a profitable franchise so they set up a secondary market for their own ticket.
Our eyes still the politicians are often upset about this after Bruce Springsteen concert where fans complain they couldn't get tickets at face value.
My always quick to pander senator senator Chuck Schumer promised he'd solve the -- We've got to get these resellers out of the process.
So your average ticket buyer has a fair shot.
At purchasing a ticket at a fair price.
And my new legislation does just that.
-- which didn't pass fortunately but a fair price seems reasonable.
Well vigil what we mean by a fair price and that is again we have -- -- -- -- some arbitrary face value that is put on that ticket and so.
I'm not sure what happened legislation you can put to solve the problem of we have to allocate a scarce resource who's gonna get in first -- we have people who are willing to pay more.
Simulate more beautiful beautiful people in first -- look people of certain rate their race or ethnic groups and we have a fundamental problem scarcity.
And prices are just a very simple way to solve this problem and a very peaceful way to solve it.
And probably the fairest way and this is just something the politicians often -- Pick on because even a nonpartisan since everyone hates paying.
Higher prices and so warm against higher prices there's a book called defending the indefensible that -- sort of brought my brain around this a libertarian ideas and one wasn't defensive there.
Ticket -- But there is a downside and with last second purchases -- -- -- your ticket is legitimate.
Watch closely as this man hands over a hundred dollars for two tickets and minutes later he finds out some bad news when he gets to the -- Finds out his tickets are -- he tried to run after the scalper but he was nowhere in sight.
And at last year's Super Bowl about 200 people.
We're turned away because they're tickets are not to be phony so what do you do about that -- and that's we have a thriving legal secondary market that prevents people from taking advantage of people level limited information so you can go to stop -- out.
This is there's a reputation here.
And -- back up their product if you don't get -- we're gonna refund your money we're gonna figure out a way to get you in and so.
That's one -- the real downside when you create a black market in people really want something the black market's -- finding a way to get it to people and if you're already doing illegal things well.
Taking advantage of eager concert goers -- are sports fans -- something that you're right for the target.
And politicians banning things doesn't usually make it better Michigan Massachusetts Arkansas.
Already have laws against scalping.
But they're never force -- rarely -- it's one of those things were people who buy the -- marginally happy that because they wanted to go.
And people who sell the tickets marginally happy because they wanted to sell it.
I don't know this happening outlets and -- Casey Brad very next what is government brands sports.
What will be on.
If you watch the super -- this weekend think about this.
Two teams will fight and then when one wins they'll shake hands and move.
Lots of money you'll be made people will have fun and everyone who participates -- -- voluntarily.
But what would happen if government rent sports I put that question Mark Cuban billionaire owner of a former world champion basketball team.
-- government -- basketball first of all.
-- no team would be able to be good.
The -- one team showed that they were better than another.
We have to go back and reevaluate the move people around so that things were fair you won't start again with a jump ball because somebody might lose the jump ball -- you have to have a coin toss some basketball and you put somebody would lose that -- -- uncovered what -- believe but it wasn't because of someone's effort you want them to look bad right.
Where you probably have to give them a little badge to show them that it was okay that you tried to get the jump ball.
Okay that's a little extreme it probably wouldn't be that bad and pro sports have fairness rules so the best teams get the last draft picks and there's revenue sharing to try to keep -- -- competitive.
But it's all voluntary and Cubans thought experiment about government sports has truth to it.
Quarters -- just be twelve minutes long because.
You know it you've got to make sure that everybody has an equal chance and you probably have to make sure that.
Each team win the same number of plays you know we will just go on and on and -- is that a fair comparison without question you know the American way is to.
To go on take chances -- to create opportunities to take the initiative and a lot of what was seen government has about watering that down all to make it more fair.
But that the fair should be based off of everybody's.
Com equal opportunity to -- Treat.
It should be but of course our government has gone well beyond that.
And -- government ran sports what happen when the -- blew the whistle called a penalty.
They would say.
I'm not sure that was a foul liquid they would -- and I asset every questionable call -- be thirteen committees and so on gains could go on for weeks.
There'd be hearings litigation -- things might go on for years.
When instant replay first appeared that almost happened to pro football.
The nit pickers in charge decreed every close -- must be reviewed to make sure it's fair.
And why not there's lots at stake.
But that was a disaster.
Fans were -- it stopped the momentum of the game.
During Sunday's Super Bowl coaches will get the challenge close place but there will be limits no more than six appeals for team.
And wraps may stare at the replay screen for no longer than sixty seconds.
In other words a limit on the search for perfect fairness.
That works is set up clear and simple rules and then the -- get out of the way try to stay out of the game.
If only government work that way we'd be much better off.
That's our show thanks for watching.
See you next.