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Former U.S. Defense Deputy Undersecretary Jed Babbin, “The Coming Collapse of China” author Gordon Chang and NextGeneration.TV’s Michelle Fields...
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The military it's -- in China expert Gordon Chang a political expert Michelle bill but how China.
It's crossing -- real big line of President Obama should drop everything to address it.
I want to start -- -- on the military side or at the -- We hear about cyber war cyber warfare I'm not sure a lot of people take it seriously anymore.
Can't -- -- -- describe what's at stake here.
Well.
Really what's at stake is every secret that we have in our country.
And pretty much every computer network which runs virtually everything we do.
This is really serious stuff Charles this is.
You know maybe it's short of an act of war but China's been going on on this path for a long long time -- about 45 years ago they -- in the army's.
Computer system in the Pentagon and shut down their email so this is not -- the -- marine at code named effort that we investigated about ten years ago from China.
You know there's only two types of government agencies the United States.
Those who have been hacked by China and those who don't know they've been -- This happens roughly a hundred times a day.
Attacks coming -- from China from.
All sorts of places in China mostly Guangdong Province it's a military effort by the Chinese it's -- highly successful cyber espionage there.
So Michelle with problem.
Is greatest to this extent.
No reaction that's I really hear anything from Washington of course you know in -- political -- we always hear China manipulating their currency but no never seem to talk about this what's seems infinitely more dangerous ultimately.
Yes it's a shame that we don't see this administration holding countries accountable when their cyber attacks coming from their shores especially.
When we believe that it state sponsored it seem like we're really lacking leadership when it comes to cyber security we're not talking about useless information.
We're talking about our country's intellectual property our secrets.
Bit you know now have a lot to do with the organization itself and the department if you see steady -- -- after study show that.
Add a lot of people on -- believe the majority of people -- T believe that.
Cyber security improvement really depends on the policies and -- organization implement so I think that this -- -- obviously.
And not just the fault of Department of Energy but it it is sort of careless cents on air park.
You know Gordon -- and I've talked so many times of the China.
And I guess the belligerents in other words just sort of like the New York Times I think growth some sort of article about the descendants have now how rich they were.
And when I heard about the cyber attack right after that I'm thinking of the godfather you know horse head in that -- -- -- -- -- like let's and we delivering doubt we can touch you.
I -- sort -- a warning but a very belligerent warning.
Most certainly because China with regard to the New York Times is trying to change the political discourse in this country so you know the Communist Party is now out of control it's not just a threat to its own people it's a threat to free institutions and free societies because they do want to change change what people say about them because they are so insecure because they believe that that -- change the discourse inside China.
You know you were with the the Defense Department.
What can be done in other words what sort of priority should this hold right now particularly an -- -- talking about spending less money on defense.
There's -- some sort of a saying when filling in this country that this is not you know not just the cyber aspect of the but.
Overall we're just you know we've won the war we bought all the wars the Cold War is a physical wars let's -- -- -- -- we don't need to spend as much money and any of this stuff anymore.
Well -- are really key point Charles one of the things that we're facing right now is a disproportionate.
Relationship between what offensive aggressors going against us.
Do and the ability of our people to defend against it it's real simple and well relatively simple I should say and very inexpensive comparatively.
To have a big offensive cyber war capability it's enormously expensive.
To defend against it so defense cuts across the board maybe not such a good idea we are doing things not may be enough cyber command.
Has at this point I believe no offensive doctrine.
That means they can defend but they don't have the ability to strike back.
We ought to have a means by which we would strike back immediately for a pretty much automatically.
When someone is hacking into US government agency.
They ought to get -- -- something in the email in return I'm oversimplifying and being a little silly about this but they ought to their computers ought to be.
Automatically attack and pretty much taken down.
-- -- -- that doctrine we should have what we should you wish to send them back doors that are right after they let -- we -- about Chicago style tactics in politics they're making lists that would supply may be back to our real enemies but the good -- -- Gordon on that same note.
That the government in China are they emboldened by our lack of retaliation and then when I say that.
Lot of people talking about.
A budding.
-- -- -- that's -- -- -- certainly an arms race between China and Japan and something going on there in the next ten years that ultimately withdraw American but are they emboldened.
Our lack of of of self defense in this -- clearly they are.
Because you know not only this administration but the previous month and talk to the Chinese about their hatching.
And the Chinese just say -- of course it's not us and because we're not willing to impose any costs on them -- -- was talking about.
Then of course -- are not going to change what they're doing because they've been very successful we're taking the technology.
And and intimidating people in the United States because of this -- -- we do some.
I don't know if it's direct cyber attack for their cyber attacks but until we do something they're not gonna change course.
Also -- -- this puts us in an -- position.
Politically though it never seems like at least this administration maybe even the Bush Administration -- paid a price with respect to public relations in this country.
How does that change when we get sort of a wake up call -- the average citizen out there and we begin to apply to White House no matter who's the occupant.
I think when individuals start feeling in affecting that look I think they need to demand that they're there isn't there needs to be a global code of conduct when this happens we need to apply pressure on those countries especially -- state sponsored.
We need to say hey you need to bring these hackers.
To -- we can't just allow this to keep going on -- not saying anything just because the Chinese they don't know -- and that there needs to be pressure pride in the White House needs to do it.
You know -- after 9/11.
The conventional wisdom shifted to the ultimate terrorist attack will come via the Internet.
What kind of risk are there I mean this is it true that -- ultimately this is -- ultimate worst case -- -- that American can be brought down via the Internet.
Yeah I think that is the ultimate worst case scenario -- we've got to have some credit here for the people who are working very hard.
To cut that off and I've several people I know in that part of the world.
And are part of the cyber world war and -- we really are spending a lot of -- a lot of very Smart guys out there for working hard to protect.
Our assets and I think we're pretty good shape that's not to say something really bad couldn't happen but I think we're in a lot better shape than people know.
My problem is cutting defense across the board is gonna cut cyber a lot of things it shouldn't be cut.
And we really need to have that offensive doctrine -- you know would all due respect to Michelle the idea of a global.
Code of conduct is nonsense nobody's little -- anyway.
We need to have our shields up in Star Trek terms and we need to be able to fire back whenever we're attacked -- guys -- -- -- -- -- all.
