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Its -- one obstacle standing when congress.
Grover Norquist his brand ideological extremism has been bad for congress and even worse for the country.
Why is it extreme.
To hold politicians accountable.
-- for spending.
And and it beat beat out -- it may -- Grover Norquist has certainly created a firestorm and now.
Many argued getting it thrown back and other Republicans that have.
Dozens strong are abandoning the pledge they once they'd never to raise taxes Americans for Tax Reform president Grover Norquist response right now Robert good to have you back and he don't.
Doing well they -- -- just really bugged you I've -- I think I know you pretty well I don't figure villain I don't think it's -- I don't think you have.
You know horns over your head there I but the way I see -- trade.
And it is this.
Machiavelli and calculating.
Lucifer in pinstripes -- that that just doesn't fit and now Republicans who seem to be relishing.
Divorcing themselves from you like in a herd mentality what do you think.
About two things first evolve.
Obama and Reid and Pelosi.
Plan to spend a great deal of money and they dead and then they plan to come back and asked Republicans to put their fingerprints on a tax increase.
To validate the higher level of spending taking spending up from -- -- 20% of GDP after 2425.
And making that the new normal.
When they turned around and asked the Republicans would they please as they were willing to an 82 and nine.
Raise taxes so the Democrats could spend all their money.
The Republicans had now.
And they said no several times and they said no no no and -- said why.
And some other Republicans had -- I made a commitment to my voters I took a pledge in writing not to raise taxes.
Well that's a problem has behind closed doors you can give somebody goodies but you can't.
-- a commitment they make in writing to their voters.
-- they decide well cents ATR shares that pledge that commitment with all candidates Republicans and Democrats.
Maybe if they attacked me.
That would make the pledge go -- The problem is is as a handful of congressman as use pointed out knowledge they say what I like to raise taxes and then look at me like I'm gonna tell them it's okay I get -- There's no we're talking tonight I have my theory on this car I think there's more to it I think what they're trying to say is.
In the middle of caving -- a pledge that they -- whether people agree or disagree with that led to the first place and some of them you know argue all got -- -- twenty years ago -- -- change area.
I think they're trying to make you who.
That the the the focus of the attack -- and the media loves detect you editor's note I don't know does the Fox News alert -- -- they don't like -- So sold now they -- -- that -- -- about that evil Grover and his comeuppance and not about Republicans.
Who are -- across the border that I I I think that's what changed him.
Well there are some reversal the Republicans who are thinking of caving nobody's voted for a tax increase yet they win they -- there have.
I think impure thoughts they haven't yet the -- that we need.
I'm telling those -- your thoughts are gonna become interactions I can read it in their thinking I can read it in what they're proposing these guys are so.
You know Islamic since the election -- -- they're there and now saying all right.
Will come up with a way to limit deductions that could be raising more money than you -- got simply reverting back to Bill Clinton rates that's how crazy they've got.
I get some Republicans did this back in 99.
The same Republicans who are threatening to cave now tried to cave during the debt ceiling -- I think there's going to be a penalty.
At a price to pay for caving on this now two years from now.
Well that one of the challenges that does people who gotten out front saying hey I can be -- I'll raise taxes come work with -- One they're undermining Boehner.
They're undermining Mitch McConnell of how the Republicans together against Obama's agenda very well for four years.
They're throwing marvels at the feet of their leadership so that's not helpful.
To there's turning to the people who voted for them and saying you know I promised you something.
Not not I change my mind you're not important enough to keep my word chip they may want to -- -- -- an argument with me but none of those gentlemen is probably -- -- And let me ask you this is an argument you and I talk about this before they come up with a plan -- doesn't raise tax rates but dramatically.
Limits deductions right also allowances.
Without raising rates there's a lot more tax revenue coming into Washington.
But they have not raise rates does that.
Pass the -- tests.
Well not to grow overcast I think he got a the American people -- see their taxes increase their tax when they write the check when they have their withholding.
They are the ones who make the decision hey wait a minute you said you're gonna raise taxes and the other piece to -- -- that's a tax -- I think it would be yes I think it's hard to imagine not -- we have electable all the parameters of what started that.
I thought that's what they're gonna come up when they're gonna come public debt to avoid this rate I -- they're gonna do everything and I think it by the way they could raise more money.
And and -- -- general what they wish for because they might get that but it will mean much higher taxes and simply reverting back to the -- never rates.
But that you would find.
A bad thing for them to do.
Well you have to look at the whole package but has described as if it's gonna raise hundreds of -- -- the Obama wants one point six trillion dollars.
It's a little hard to -- that the small of your back and in one point six trillion -- going to hurt like that dickens'.
And it's all capital by the way this all comes out of savings this all comes out of the investment capital the United States.
People don't pay taxes with consumption -- pay taxes -- money they haven't consumed this should be a body blow to America's ability.
Invest capital in the future to accumulate savings for the future.
It be very bad for the economy and everybody was their fingerprints on this again.
George Herbert Walker Bush thought he was a hero in 1990s.
When he cut the DL any raise taxes and he got promises of spending cuts taxes went up spending didn't go down he tanked the economy.
Any girl get himself -- -- We never got detonated he never got to be outspent -- -- you what everyone makes a big deal about a pledged an avid media never accept the pledge.
To hold off on tax hikes.
But if -- if you did you did the same with a pledge to rein in spending I think you'd be even more vilified.
-- added there's just no appetite certainly in the media to accepts.
An alternative to the mindless sort of spending we've gotten.
Than what we say.
The only reason they're even talking about spending restraint is they're trying to buy tax increases.
-- added that the pledge is actually has an effect on spending.
Not as strong as we need but it it's a good step for him not raising taxes is the first condition of getting to spending restraint.
If you leave taxes on the table no spending restraint happens and -- subject.
It it's like putting a -- and the goldfish -- involved goldfish disappear.
Although all the spending cuts disappear there's -- tax on the table it's not a good idea hasn't worked in the past and artwork in the future.
I begin -- -- with a way to media's portrait you that you actually as a child did put Toronto and a goldfish -- -- I.
I need proof of that.
Grover thank you very much as -- like to remind.
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