Also in this playlist...
This transcript is automatically generated
America locks up more people for more time -- other country.
Maybe that's -- crimes that she's.
The criminal justice system it's really just a big failed government program the swings Supreme Court justices -- -- The resources are being misspent.
Punishments are too severe.
And -- upset that this Tea Party leader was locked up for doing the right thing.
Telling authorities he had a license -- The problem.
We have so many laws you could end -- I would never worked -- they wouldn't be what they've done him justice for all.
That's our show.
Just good it's.
-- -- hurt someone I want you locked up if you're likely to do it again I want you locked up a long time throw away the key.
But wait a second throw away that he -- fair.
People do make one time mistakes.
Even repeat criminals often goes straight when they get older and smarter so what's the right sentence.
Maybe it's best to leave after the judge the judge knows the circumstance.
Since heard the evidence.
Judicial discretion is a phrase they -- to hear a lot.
I hear it less now because now we have more mandatory sentences that's when politicians decide that anyone who breaks -- certain law must be jailed for at least so many years.
Bill -- Reilly wants more mandatory minimum.
You go away and the judge doesn't happens we had to do that.
Because some judges were giving these criminals probation.
Or a couple of years prison time I had -- -- on a national campaign to get child.
Predator laws passed that's why you need mandatory.
A -- will says bills right she's a former prosecutor.
But Julie Stewart says bill and police are wrong will Juli runs a group called -- families against mandatory minimums what's.
Wrong -- with -- -- moments please we'll say it's pressure -- the bad guys.
Well I think it also captured a lot of people who aren't bad guys and puts him in prison for a very long time.
I know personally because my brother went to prison for five years -- -- marijuana that when he was convicted -- well.
No marijuana and it's not so serious but the judge at his trial at the sentencing -- I'm sorry had to give me five years because congress -- Pass these laws that time my hands and it was -- and it was happening for me I had no idea the -- no longer had the discretion to sentence people to this sentence if that was appropriate.
Nor should they have the discussion frankly because if you've got somebody in.
Idaho the -- of a bank robbery with a gun all right that's it that's an additional charge.
And that somebody -- name does the same bank -- let's say they take 101000 from the teller two tellers.
Terrorize us tellers they wind up -- -- federal prison together that -- I don't get how Idaho gets three years the guy in Maine gets fifteen years.
What because doesn't make any -- it's one judge decided this guy exactly do judicial discretion now that so why doesn't happen.
What what you're fine with that you're fine with two people of the same crime this is the mistake filled with -- tunnels how many cases have -- prosecute federal courts -- I have okay thank you very much of that and we're proud you're here why no mandatory minimums work around work one incentivized people pick up a low level drug got you say elk creek and come money -- look at a five year mandatory minimum for that for that drug bust.
If you talk to me.
If you talk to -- if you give up the higher ups I'm gonna.
It get a lesser sentence for you I can do that as a prosecutor and a judge and by the way to -- the judge only sees the very end of the story.
The prosecutor's the one who sees it from the beginning to the end and the prosecutor has too much power the prosecutor gets well I'm not only what the charges but what the sentences.
But let's go through my -- one more time.
I get this guy and it's a five year mandatory OK but the low level -- And I helps you threaten him so -- sorry sorry that's Kelly -- Jail why do you need your sandals though because it's nice and look at -- -- -- -- you're look at -- five year mandatory if you help me find the big guy.
Or the bigger guys of the bigger ladies or whatever it is.
If you help me find those people or make up the story about an innocent person thought that it might have lie detector test what are they don't have anybody to trade up.
They want -- what they can't they in -- we don't know ninety ninth.
Again -- if you guys.
I prosecuted these cases and I all do running and I -- 21 years I've seen thousands of cases.
31 year old mother of three.
For ex husband -- abusive husband is is outside the door.
Right and she has had a restraining order against him because his putter and the hospital before because he's in abusive before so he she is -- -- for her life she runs out to the garage to leave accuser in the house she realizes she pulls her legally registered firearm out of the car.
Because back in.
Points at you know at the floor and says go and he says no and she shoots into the ceiling he -- is with his two children who are with him.
And then he turns -- -- that judge still has no choice but to give her twenty years the prosecution offered her three year.
And did not Big Ten she thought she was defending herself but she wasn't felt it was not she was not as she was trying to kill him and she missed she went out of my house.
She went out of -- house she could've gotten -- that car and and it's bad off she did not do that she chose to believe she was angry she chose to go back -- and confront.
And not fire in a -- but fire right at those two kids now know.
I'm not appreciate not fire at the kids know they went right center right no one has said very little grand -- laughing and I don't do -- can't just fire Michael -- -- seventeen years old caught smoking -- And rightly for he allowed a friend of manufacture meth -- his property.
Tell the story.
He -- in Missouri everybody around it was using methamphetamine and he eventually became addicted at -- -- he'll let some friend make methamphetamine in his backyard someone informed on him and salad.
Police arrive they find the waste water that may that the man methamphetamine was made and had about a -- -- and actually methamphetamine and it they weighed the waste water and said this is two kilos worth of waste water therefore we're gonna sentencing for two kilos worth of methamphetamine.
They never charged him -- distributing.
They charged him for having had gone which was in his house to legally -- registered firearms.
So you a sense to ten years in federal prison is still doing time.
That's a lot but you've got to think -- who is if you're getting the prosecutor prosecuted that case who is -- -- guy gonna get me to he's gonna get the die the friend now he didn't.
Well that it's about classic and no but that's the point is that not everybody has somebody on form on.
And I -- -- one -- case last case Tim Tyler.
Sold LSD sentenced to life in prison.
Yes Tim Tyler is one of very Grateful Dead he's dead hands or you know during the eighties -- -- follow the grateful that all over the country.
He got cut government and using -- -- like many deadheads did and you know twice was convicted for having honesty and Florida got probation didn't do any prison time.
The third time he was sold -- data confidential informants who basically turned amendment.
And he was sentenced to life without parole because in 1994 the federal government passed a a crime bill that was that allowed the third strike to send it factor into.
I live without drawback -- neighborhood yes I do you know last -- he -- when he finally you know really good luck.
Not -- -- two children I have sorry children I would you know really nothing is safe with him -- -- I don't -- sorry he was 25 years -- he's been imprisoned since nineteen -- -- -- for -- he's been.
How many times have you now they -- the warriors are -- is flat out lie and I have to keep them I don't want I got my neighborhood.
I'm sorry but at least in terms of how long he should -- your neighbor heard nodding your neighborhood.
Why is it better for congress to set one size rule fits all -- a judge who hears the evidence.
That you're wrong about that because most cases end up -- please what happens in a plea.
That's a judge hear everything now a judge hears a soliloquy from the prosecutor stands up and says what they've agreed to.
As you know this is what he did this what he didn't do and then they have a sentencing again a prosecutor and defense are able to argue.
The judge doesn't cure all the facts the judge is not there looking at all the evidence of the prosecutor the defense lawyer are going through four months if not years.
And okay and you want us to trust the the prosecutor -- prosecutors know that they get elected to higher office if they have a line of scalps and -- rally on generally that's not true if you're an assistant US attorney Richard I was -- not elected.
Okay I'm Donna -- a little -- -- forward though it -- -- prosecutors get it wrong I'm not saying that every judge is gonna get it right every time -- prosecutors get around to and that's all you have to -- look at all the people on -- and -- have been exonerated in the last twenty years and we know they're getting our conference -- -- prosecutors are prosecuting this -- that are around talking about the murder cases there's an -- -- we -- -- cases we're -- why would -- be more careful in a drug -- than a murder case.
Well because it's a murder case when you think yeah no less careful in the murder case this.
And I don't get your reasoning I mean to me it's spent they're not they're not gonna get a read all the time and why should this -- -- this nonsense it's nonsense -- I did last night 800.
Covers some of these sentences they they started years ago.
You know and we we have robbery by a pirate you automatically get a life sentences and the long ones.
Now we have Florida seven grams of -- One big one was in 1951.
Hale -- sponsored -- bill this is Cokie roberts' father he was upset about drug use and teens.
A two year minimum sentence for first offense it's including simple possession made no distinction between drug users and traffickers.
He said users should be quarantines and these politicians.
Compete to see it make you safer.
Locking them up you're long you're going back to 1951.
And this program the end it would -- -- -- that and it example.
-- -- I don't know you know already is -- -- -- -- I know that the -- act was ban repealed in nineteen Nixon and threw it -- -- it didn't work at bill.
And this sensing that mantra some things have been released now they've been written read -- -- judges I have more discretion.
A lot but I as a prosecutor former prosecutor I believe -- I -- I believe they incentivized people.
If you comment you're in that horrible position of saying I'm going away for five or ten or twenty years he.
The five years so what -- you give me as a prosecute going to be a lot of these -- I don't know -- -- us and basically comes down to colors thank you both sides not press.
Thank you and.
Coming up are we -- crawl under the law how -- you and Lindsay Lohan for you people.
And what if you can get a president -- commute -- -- -- -- To grow marijuana.
The intended to sell but he got caught.
He was then sentenced to more than 24.
Years in jail on under the mandatory minimum sentence -- no chance of parole.
And yet today 44 years is not an -- sets.
Peter nine Meyer former marijuana sellers so how can we not in jail.
Because on the greatest day of my life.
Former President Bill Clinton commuted the remaining fourteen and -- half years I -- left on my federal mandatory minimum sentence and I became.
A free man.
Thanks in large part of families against mandatory minimums my federal government to -- -- a lot of folks that really supported me over the years while I was imprisoned.
He served ten years and -- And then got out and then a few years later the president came to Kansas to make a speech that's where.
-- -- got a chance to talk to him a Kansas and BC station covered that.
President Clinton worked his way along the securities and shaking hands and taking pictures he'll tell you the guy that -- in the paper because I'm so now you've got but not good numbers the president got blood do.
We'd love that they're there -- Haaretz and that was it that was a happy moment in the he commuted his sentence what the day that President Bush was inaugurated -- Does high -- game regularly chow and I kinda given up on my commutation and I got news.
That I needed to come to the unit in the lower -- unit.
I actually was afraid that may be another family member had had something terrible happened because for months previous to that my mother died while I was in prison.
-- now a drug counselor you wouldn't counsel other people who have come -- -- trouble addictions and mental health.
-- licensed social worker.
All right but President Clinton commuted 36 sentences on that day you got off because the sentencing judge Richard Rodgers.
-- To the president about the excessive -- of -- sentence there is little disagreement he said among judges and academics.
That the long term incarceration of drug offenders is ineffective.
And a huge drain on taxpayers beaten and the president commute your sentence and that's great but.
There are thousands of these sentences it -- you gotta know all the right.
Politician he got to have a friendly judge this doesn't seem fair.
I'm I have a lot of survivor's guilt about the thousands of people that I left behind in federal prison that I -- -- equally or more deserving.
A lot of those would be women who left behind children.
I have a nine year old daughter now I can't imagine what it would be like to be separated from her.
So you know that was part of it but also a big part of what was families against mandatory minimums -- getting you know this brought to president Clinton's attention.
President Clinton admits he's smoked weed and it had some mandatory minimum bid around 8 o'clock.
Yet he's enforcing presiding over a system that locks people like you -- it just seems really.
Still in critical he -- -- -- you even heard of mandatory minimums when you got called off to jail no I really never.
Now it was you know -- had some other scrapes with the law but this is the first time I was looking -- prison and I was looking at some people say if we build there that the bad -- -- you the bad guy knows there's a mandatory minimum but most.
Criminals don't even know about it now actually years so caught up in the lifestyle and addiction in the whole thing you're so separated from -- I mean I come from a really great family and it just took over my life started off of marijuana.
And that was primarily my drug of choice and it just you know you're just captured not became I'm -- -- -- my own prison if you well.
But the politicians argue these drugs hurt people got to lock people up longer that'll teach them a lesson that will solve the problem -- well.
Here's the deal people need.
I needed intervention and -- really being imprisoned actually having -- accountability and stopping my cycle with my.
Drugs my associates and lifestyle.
I mean truly I needed some help there and I needed to be held accountable but did I need 24 and a half years.
I think myself and a whole lot of people half or more of the people -- -- in federal prison.
Where people like myself they were good people got on the wrong track.
And just to throw away their lives which is what I felt like it was I felt like it set I was incorrigible I was -- rehabilitated and I was never gonna have another chance at life if I wouldn't.
-- them luckiest guy on the planet.
Well I'm glad you got out thanks to President Clinton and Peter nine -- thank you coming up how might town -- -- people.
To do now.
Day has its own laws and you have to Obey the laws of your state but -- travel in America.
Do you know what the law -- in my town.
In every state in America well not in Illinois most every state.
Every other state it's now legal to carry a handgun if -- -- permit for him to carry it with you when millions of Americans still.
In 49 states but there are so many different rules about exactly.
Where it's legal to carry that hundreds of well meaning people people try to do the right thing -- jail.
Because they didn't -- the gun law here where there.
No one of those people is mark -- mark what happened to you.
On December 15 of last year I was traveling I come to New York regularly -- I was actually to read Tea Party activists -- on the Tea Party activists have been involved in the movement for.
-- got the gun in the carry permit because some people didn't like Tea Party activists he wanted to defend yourself my family was receiving threats and so we -- it would be good idea to protect ourselves.
All right see you live in California and you're going to Virginian.
I was on my way to Virginia actually for shooting Christmas party in Virginia.
And -- stopped -- in new York and I was transiting through new York and I was checking in at LaGuardia at about 5 in the morning on December 15 he took a flight to New York got off stayed in the hotel went back.
To -- the region exactly.
Went to the airport like I've done so many times all across the country and went through the process of checking in with an unloaded handgun in a locked case.
And that -- to have the special TSA approved locked case that something like this that's at the TSA requires a hard sided case with locks okay.
He had that I have that I walked up to the counter and asked for -- handgun declaration form which I've done all over the country.
And filled it out and gave it to the ticket agent she said she was gonna call the Port Authority police over which is common to have -- inspected it's different in every airport.
And the police came over and they asked me.
If that was my firearm I said yes they asked me if I had a permanent -- in New York City I said no and they said they're placing me under arrest.
And you went to jail.
-- not only went to -- the right there allegory.
In front of her body they put my hands behind my back handcuffed me.
Did the perp walk out to the squad car and stuff me in the back of -- squad car and took me -- Charge you with a felony carrying a concealed weapon with intent to do -- Did you intend to do -- Absolutely now and then they presented no evidence that I intended to do harm it's also interesting John because in New York apparently.
Carrying means in a locked case in your luggage and loaded means that you have a hand yen and you have ammunitions somewhere.
But I was never actually carrying it as ever never actually loaded it was an unloaded weapon locked in a TSA approved dates and as you went to court you say the -- law enforcement officials were.
Laughing about how stupid this once.
They're actually more frustrated that this was going on and when I got I got booked in Queens central in the booking officer was furious because he -- they have real criminals to do whatever real problems.
And having to process a guy like me through the system doesn't make any sense.
And as far as the disruption to your life the prosecutors told her lawyer it's no big deal no big deal and my lawyer responded you know you didn't get to talk to his wife -- 6 in the morning.
Who got -- 3 in the morning California time that her husband was in jail in New York City.
Well let's go to a similar case -- med student from Tennessee went to the 9/11 memorial here in new York and saw no -- sign so she.
Asked the police where she could check her.
On her license on the police instead of taking her going and checking -- -- explaining to her that you've been licensed guns are illegal in the city.
Charge sure with a felony that comes with a -- -- minimum three and a half year jail term.
-- beloved mayor Michael Bloomberg has become something of an anti gun zealot was asked whether the bad student should.
Get a break he responded with a good example of political arrogance.
I don't know I don't know why anybody doesn't know what you're saying don't -- we've been talking about it and testify.
But yet but -- she didn't get arrested for pentagon.
She probably would have gotten a message for the cocaine yeah.
How how high are ready there was laughing but what's funny.
The police reported there was quite soften her pocket but there assumed it was cocaine turned out to be asked for.
Three months later after lots of media criticism the prosecutor drop the felony charge she paid a fine of 200 bucks.
But the prosecutor could have wrecked her life.
And this happens often.
It happens according to my attorney over 300 times a year here in new York and all of those people are people who are trying to abide by the laws to.
Who are carrying guns according to legal permits and in people like me who declare them at the airports.
-- you know Bloomberg laughs about it the prosecutor said it's no big deal John I can tell you.
When you feel those handcuffs clothes on your wrist.
You understand the thin line between liberty and turning -- that serious situation.
In addition to arrogance I would add the nurses sizzle of politicians -- everyone must know what our.
Very different laws are.
You know I'll have lives they don't read the laws and every new place I'm a lawyer and I actually research the laws when I travel with my anger and and -- research state -- I had no idea that cities had individual laws and the reality is.
The cities across the country can do this than there really is no Second Amendment because it's impossible for any individual to know the laws in every city and those laws.
Are constantly changing so not -- cannot know them.
But they change every day.
Mayor Bloomberg said these laws are important there are just too many guns on the streets we have to do something about it keep guns out of the hands of criminals.
So I'd like to ask the mayor what purpose was served how did we make New York City safer.
By arresting and charging somebody like me or somebody like Meredith graves the reality is it's an illegal she's -- educational.
-- Mayor Bloomberg we invite you -- the -- would answer his question I hope you'll come to thank you mark mettler coming up.
More horrible stories.
Could this happen at your house.
Drug raids like this -- happened in America more than a hundred times every day.
Who when this rate is swat team broke into this family's house shot their dog.
Once inside they didn't find -- drugs.
The owner was just charged with possessing drug paraphernalia.
The drug war is the main reason American jails more people than any other country.
I'm not gonna debate the merits of the drug laws now that's for another show but I wanna talk about the tactics like -- rate.
Such raids are increasing in number and sometimes the police make the stakes.
Here's another case -- may was sleeping in his -- Mississippi one night when he woke to a loud banging on the door.
I thought somebody would it was -- man Ali had to do this does not announcing.
You never went ahead.
The -- was well let his lawyer export.
He got his -- ran into the back bedroom -- dollar wars and he had just gotten there when the door was -- -- And some I'll figure came Meehan and he.
He being -- Fired three jobs.
The man at the door was a police officer one of those shots killed him.
-- was arrested and charged with murder and -- to death row.
And -- set -- years before journalists Bradley -- started reporting on the injustice of the raid and what happened that Corey who has so Bradley tell the story.
Well -- researching actually it was a policy analyst for the Cato institute at the time and I was researching a paper on these tactics on the use of the swat swat teams.
-- -- been about a 15100%.
Increase in the use of these these sorts of raids the last 25 years or so.
Mostly because of the drug war.
So -- reviewed a lot of these -- and I was researching this paper and I came across -- case and I found like and in Associated Press right up in the local news right up.
In Normandy explained exactly what you just said that there was a raid on -- house that he woke up the middle of the night there people breaking into his house.
I had no prior criminal record -- -- basically found a burnt marijuana cigarette in the house that was all they found.
And he lived next to a known drug dealer so is pretty clear that they had intended to get -- the apartment next to his and and had rated him by mistake.
Six for a lot of red flags -- to sort of -- -- -- he did killing cops he absolutely did any of me I mean there's no question about that.
Bosnia to two scenarios here the prosecutions case is that this guy who had no criminal record no drugs to speak of in this house woke up.
Knew that these were cops breaking into his house decided to take them on with his little handgun.
Shot and killed just one of them and then immediately surrendered with bullets still left in the gun.
The other scenarios -- you know their cops that he woke up and thought he was being robbed or invaded hit an eighteen month old -- the daughter asleep on his bed.
And -- was terrified.
If we're gonna have drug laws and drugs to hurt people.
Many Americans say you know this just goes with territory.
Yet these are really aggressive tactics right when you break in the somebody's home in the middle night when you -- their door down -- used to have swat teams for.
Terrorists are serious threats emergency situations right bank robberies or hostage takings.
But now they are overwhelming -- L overwhelmingly used to serve search warrants for drug crimes and usually pretty low level crimes.
So you know you you you.
-- -- very primitive response from someone when you break into the home in the middle of the night -- fighter fight Ole miss your sanctuary if it's your -- right it's it's your place of refuge and you can't really fleet when you wake up in your home to armed men in your home so public of -- -- are many answers here your face of this very sort of primitive decision and I mean in case like Korean he had no reason to think that these are cops coming in his home and if you actually are drug dealer you might suspect that that's the case right.
But all the time that these -- to break into people's housing get get the wrong house by mistake they're put in this really terrible position.
Some people want and even tougher drug war they say these -- to make America safer.
We should be kicking now more doors Paul -- -- was White House drug czar advisor under President Bush includes.
They're not kick in the door somebody smoke and -- -- On their couch they're kick in the door of somebody who is a violent person with a known history to be dangerous when they get it right sometimes they make mistakes -- Because that accident happened should not be the reason that we do away with the program because of an accident.
We shouldn't do it that the program.
Yeah I'll have a dispute as premise also.
They're supposed to only do these sorts of -- on the person as violent or has a history of violence.
What we're saying is that just the fact that this person is suspected to have drugs is usually enough for the police to claim that their violence and they can get the warrant to make these kinds of entries.
I would say you know this is more dangerous for cops to -- drug use at the usually think it's a rival drug dealer that's breaking into -- house let's move onto another aspect of the drug -- and your prosecution civil forfeiture what's that and sort of the height of the drug wars stereo who congress passed this law in a lot of states followed suit that said.
The police can take your stuff -- your commute even if you aren't convicted of the crime and -- even if you're never charged with a crime.
And what they still is that the police we'll take your property -- -- say we found some evidence that this is in some way connected drug activity.
And you know have to prove that you -- that property legitimately -- the incentives from the cops can make money from the money -- Madison police department.
It's just one example Russell and pat -- as -- -- about to have the motel they don't taken by the government.
Not because the -- wells broke any laws.
But because the local police department wants to cash in on the -- -- property.
Worth more than a million dollars.
Because at tiny fraction of people -- stayed at the motel casualty in the past twenty years have been arrested for crimes.
Civil forfeiture allows the government to take property and merely suspects has some involvement with the crime.
But unlike criminal forfeiture where property can only be taken if the owner is convicted of the crime.
Police can use -- civil forfeiture to take away cash cars homes or other property.
Without conflicting or even charging the owner with any wrongdoing.
The US department of justice and the local police will split -- payout of more than a million dollars if they can successfully seize and sell the cast wells land.
That's -- all the losses but I have trouble thinking of the Justice Department and the local cops it is just feeds.
Well -- I mean you look at this case the council case that the government admits that the owners this -- had not committed any crimes.
They're trying to take their hotel their -- away from them because they're saying.
They weren't doing enough to prevent crimes from occurring on their property.
I'm sort of the next step and asset -- it's -- -- we suspect you could anything now it's you need to do more to prevent other people from committing crimes on your property and constantly -- often includes hiring members of local police department to -- to work off duty security at your hotel cook coincidentally of course.
And just -- swat team raids -- increase these forfeiture -- have increased in 1986.
They confiscated 93 million dollars pretty good but.
More than a billion dollars so tell us more more laws more enforcement.
And we're now to a point where a lot of police departments actually right forfeiture proceeds into their budget that so this is and this is no longer money that's buying you know cappuccino machines and you know extra fancy police guard tower cases of cappuccino machines as -- -- the Hawaii Margarita machine and one case but now now older than -- the officer's actual set actual salaries is dependent on them finding people to forfeit property and and money to the police department.
Different incentives for the police thank you Bradley Balco coming up what do President Obama.
And Lindsay -- and haven't come.
But next -- questions for our guests.
We're back now -- your comments and questions for my gas.
Mark -- clear of the Tea Party patriots Fox News legal analyst least we'll.
Julie Stewart founder of families against mandatory minimums.
And blogger Bradley -- Colin and Bradley I just during the commercial I realize we've talked about core remain in the horrible thing that happened -- But waiting till the end of the story.
Yet he's actually out now so he was on death row when I first discover the case -- wrote a little bit about it.
Law firm in DC partner they're read about the case on line in the -- got partly because of you.
And partly because of me and they -- -- -- representation then eventually the death sentence was thrown out he was given a trial.
And I think prosecutors decided they think they didn't wanna try and against they -- to me and manslaughter deal with time served.
So the long story short -- he got out in July and was was finally.
As a free man.
My FaceBook page Simon Tompkins asked why his ignorance of the law no excuse.
When nobody can possibly know at all.
And release she's about these laws just like prosecutors Ocalan -- -- about that okay fight litter.
If I believe the little -- average on the floor well that might be.
I'll be legal in some places and not elite and others if I walk across the -- -- is that when there's a no crossing that might be illegal in someplace and not others.
If I wrote about bank or murder somebody or deal in drugs.
It's illegal in every -- 80000.
-- laws we have more than the congressional research that -- -- now it was -- minimum that's not what we're talking about we're talking about laws.
Moment mostly drug cases but laws that every citizen in this country knows that they -- -- when they do that.
Yes but it.
Hi I'm I'd like to just this question to mr.
-- I understand that you.
Had issues arise when you -- your gun into New York City and declared it.
On the but I have to wonder if there wouldn't have been anything that you could have done as an attorney to -- the laws of New York State or New York City -- A lawyer why we have -- and gone -- its I think that's a fair question in and the answer is.
And I still travel on the weapon when I do I consistently and constantly research the laws of the state to which I travel.
And so the problem is that it becomes literally impossible I participate -- online forums I when I checked -- text software on my phone.
Before I traveled I brought the -- in a locked case it never came out of the case it was never on the streets of New York on my person.
It was locked in a hotel safe while I was here.
In this is -- is -- emptying their strengths and I'm not nothing in here.
But it was locked up the whole time so the answer is yes theoretically I could have found out those laws that's true but the reality is.
It would prevent -- from all over the country knowing that you have to know every single city travel to I traveled hundreds.
Those cities a year around this country.
But don't you feel some responsibility when you know you're taking a firearm to his absolute don't you feel like you should know the with a loss of whatever city -- -- that you're going to here's a -- story happened in Philadelphia last year there was a guy was open carrying in the city of Philadelphia which is legal under Pennsylvania law.
Was arrested by Philadelphia police that pointed the guns in his -- that threatened to kill him.
He's had taken into police station that didn't -- -- set -- -- sergeant to look up the law but that the law the guy was right about the law he was -- and caring legally the cops got -- -- -- the law wrong.
So you wanna talk about you need to know the -- -- -- those cup do you think were arrested for violating his constitutional rights.
None of them in fact the police chief held a press conference the next day.
Pre announced that he would do the same thing to anyone else -- open carrying Philadelphia basically announcing to the entire state that he was going to openly -- -- set out how we -- -- I think when that cop prosecutors from the cops are being held accountable what how can you hold citizens accountable for -- all these laws.
Is there any evidence that prison time or increased prison time actually.
Rehabilitate people or is -- more of retribution -- measure.
Request -- abilities reduces crimes rehabilitation.
That's our justice system I'm sorry that is that's that's the truth well let me sometimes it just to get bad people.
Bad people off the street.
Longer but is there any evidence that there's less crime in states that have a lot of mandatory minimums no and I don't look at the other end and and Florida as a -- Florida New York a perfect example in the last seven years Florida has increased its incarceration by about 16%.
During that same period of time New York has.
-- -- And crime rates in New York have dropped at twice the rate of Florida and Democrat and looking to it's everything and in Texas -- is leading the reform and sentencing.
There -- violent crime -- has.
Dropped twice as much as the national -- and their property crime rates have come down 10%.
There's absolutely a limited if any kind of correlation between mandatory sentences in crime.
Thank you all for being here next -- -- can.
What the Soviet Union can teach us about lots of laws and mandatory -- Show me the man and now showing in a crime.
That creepy quote is attributed to Barea.
In the former Soviet Union he -- the security forces for style.
Solid executed anyone he considered a threat and didn't take much to be -- threat he executed thousands.
The area could always find some lava man must -- broke up.
That's easy to do -- laws are vague and there are lots of them.
I'm not saying Americans like Stalin's Russia but look at all these laws we've now got.
This just represents federal law states and cities have more.
And last week the Fed to loan and that another thousands of thousand pages if you read -- all.
This is a reason America locks up so many people.
This graph shows the increase in prisoners of America the total tripled over the past few decades.
But the next graph is telling too which shows America locks up a much higher percentage of our people.
That even countries we consider repressive.
China jails 121.
Out of every 100000 people in Russia it's 511.
More than 700.
This is not a good thing.
The economist says of America never in the civilized world have so many been locked up for so little.
And keep adding more laws and longer jail terms.
A few years ago a man and Iowa found a bullet he put it on his Dresser forgot about it.
Months later his ex girlfriend accused him of taking -- stuff he let that police into his apartment to prove it wasn't true police solvable.
Turns out the man had an old felony conviction.
He'd served his time the bullet wasn't a threat but federal losses felons cannot possess any ammunition.
And so he's now serving a fifteen year mandatory sentence for possessing the -- Really.
The eighth Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the sentence saying our hands are tied.
By the mandatory minimum the most of you'll be victimized by mandatory minimums or by the -- -- -- cities in this pile of laws spots.
If you try to create something build a business this is bigger chance that she'll fall victim -- something in this pile.
-- celebrities get good lawyers who deal with prosecutors and allow -- liberties to move on with their lives I'm not taking this -- a joke mean I.
But if you're not rich -- famous in some ambitious prosecutor wants to get you.
You're basically post.
The power held by police and prosecutors is amounts.
And it takes just one -- -- -- -- one publicized arrest one trial in your reputation is on.
And so probably is your job your friends and all your money even if you're isn't paying you were lawyers will probably bankrupt you.
The drug war makes the inequity -- lots of politicians admit that they use drugs even president's joke about it I inhaled.
Don't know the point hot cop.
And yet once and also state preside over a justice system to jails a million Americans for doing what they did.
Give me a break.
I want my government to have the power to arrest dangerous people but a -- come -- if they threaten us.
But our politicians today have gone way.
That's our show thanks for watching.
Filter by section