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And that's not bad enough experts are saying.
The government's estimate of 800 billion plus dollars a stimulus isn't even close a Cato Institute economist now saying it's more like two and a half trillion.
-- -- economic advisor art Laffer estimating more than four trillion dollars the former -- apartment of housing and urban development secretary.
So it up.
Sir what do you make of these numbers.
Well I haven't seen the numbers I can't speak to them they probably are more than the 800 million that the administration has spoken -- But.
The stimulus was needed at the time I think any economist of any stripe.
Would say that at the point that we were in 2009.
We were on the edge of what was potentially a bona fide depression.
That the combination of measures that included stimulus a very substantial stimulus.
And things other measures like addressing that the problems of the banks and helping the banks regain liquidity.
We're essential step -- -- people agree that it pulled us back from the edge of what would've been a bona fide depression you know I'll ever does so we don't -- as a minute.
-- -- it's presumption is when people come on the show may speak for all economists and they say most people would agree.
I tell you I don't think agrees -- you guys main street.
Because I think most Americans that were in a personal recession when the stimulus was announced are still in a personal reception today.
So all of the stuff about what the economists felt what they thought what that -- actually do for America.
Well I agreed that it wasn't enough and it didn't that not all the measures took hold.
In a way that came to the to the present.
We have not pulled out of this recession in the sense of getting robust growth it's still -- pretty flat economy and a lot of folks are worried about flat -- going forward but I said in 2009 the beginning of 2009 -- what we confronted at that moment.
Several quarters of declining jobs several quarters of declining GDP in a dramatic way some of the worst numbers since the end of World War II.
The stimulus was necessary at the time it got us away from the precipice.
Now I'm sure mistakes have been made on all counts public and private in the intervening years but at that moment we were on the edge of the cliff.
And the stimulus was important to bring us back from the it.
Do you think though that sometimes and I know that the for politicians professional politicians.
It's -- from in the take or accept this particular angle but in economics you have to go over you have to go in other words you know what.
It in up if you make a mistake -- your slave you have a stock princes at the hundred boxing you make a big mistake and it's supposed to go to fifty no matter how many people say.
Hold it buy it it's gonna go down to -- supposed to go I think we've witnessed that with our economy I think we've witnessed that in the housing market.
And somewhat like a Mitt Romney is actually been called mean spirited for suggesting that may -- of the government would have moved out the way.
Let the worst case and -- at the time evolves.
And then picked up the pieces from there that we might be at a better point now short of -- would have been greater but right now the healing -- my -- might be greater as well.
You know I just can't accept that logic but my own assessment of years of being in government as well as in business.
Tells me that you've got to deal with the objective facts -- you confront him at the time.
And the fact that this country confronted in 2008 in 2009 required measures including on President Bush's watch when he initiated.
The rescue of some of the banks and some stimulus measures.
Continued on president Obama's watch again stimulus initiatives bank measures international interventions.
-- -- regulatory interventions a whole range of things.
Now I really do believe in my heart that -- we had just stepped away at that point.
The damage the carnage would have been incredible in terms of the depths of unemployment.
We wouldn't be pulling out of it yet believe me.
This -- been flat but it's not been -- the absolute devastation would have occurred had the government not acted at the time.
Have we created a monster this economy -- the stock markets doesn't go up unless they think there's more free money printing coming along.
Or people don't start to spend less they think there's some sort of up -- -- program coming along in other words.
Have we somehow you know I mean I don't Epson America so -- that -- -- that made us the greatest country in the world have we put that on the back burner.
And now we're like just little chicks and and that's waiting for the next round the stimulus before we flat.
-- I don't believe no I don't believe that at all I think the American people are very very Smart I think you said that earlier earlier segment of your program are very Smart.
And when they get confident that their personal circumstance their job situation their income situation justifies spending.
They they will return to robust spending they have been deleveraging getting rid of some of their debts we know that that process -- occurred.
So I have great faith in the collective wisdom of the American people both in politics as well as in.
Business decisions and similarly Wall Street and and the stock market the stock market is at a steady rise.
Over the last few years I mean that it's been up and down but that that that the overall trajectory has been increase.
And and -- I expected it'll continue to increase from here.
I did to in part because I think the rest of the world is taken some neck -- that we used to have but.
In I've been a fan of -- up for a long time -- been a critic of yours and a fan of yours I appreciate you taking time out tonight appreciate it thanks a lot sir thank you.
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