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‘State of the Unions' author Phil Dine on the future of unions, Wisconsin and collective bargaining.
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Big loss for the unions in the Supreme Court yesterday it was a seven to two majority ruling.
And it said that the unions cannot force nonunion members to pay special fees to pay for political campaigns and -- it is again that ruling was seven to two.
Even liberal justices Sotomayor and Ginsburg voted against the union.
Joining us now still dying he's also all -- state all of the unions filled.
Aren't against -- I see that as a big loss for suddenly a loss put it like that.
That is not that was not filled moment that we got fill -- but that wasn't him that was John what's his that was John.
-- that was armament that was John.
-- -- -- All right Philip -- -- that's you I don't know who you are -- idea that Iraq.
I'm side that was a big loss for the -- to the Supreme Court yesterday and you say.
Well you you call -- union defender -- -- -- management -- Stewart.
In any case IEA IE don't disagree with you I think this was a setback.
I'm not sure how big yet it's it's a little bit of a complex ruling but I do agree it was a setback for unions.
I just think it will affect the collection of political.
Money.
In the few Asia and in future elections -- that that was a source of money.
Which unions had not exactly relied upon but -- was part of the money flow which they did rely -- and they won't have it in the future very probably right.
Yeah I would there wasn't a huge part again this -- -- -- non members.
Who unions are are required by law to represented incidentally.
What.
Where when unions -- shop can't the left it with a can't take money off from.
The political campaign summoned the just can't just go in -- and take the money off from the can't do right OK correct that let let's move on to Wisconsin because it seems like the unions happy having a very hard time.
And I specifically refer to the American federation of state municipal employees.
When the state of Wisconsin stopped collecting union dues.
Membership about union went from 62000.
To 28 house.
Now that's a big blow for the units in that state and possibly elsewhere.
I I question those.
I question that -- the causal relationship fair -- what's happened is that.
The state employees.
Roles have gone down not only Wisconsin but elsewhere not necessarily because of people leaving the unions although maybe in some cases that's happened.
But more because state employees are being laid off for reading and around the country including Wisconsin -- in Wisconsin 6000 teaches walked away from the union when there would no longer having that union -- taken off them automatically by the state 6000 -- -- that that's a small percentage it happens I mean you're right there's ebbs and flows through union membership.
It's still about word was a couple years ago percentage wise it no dramatic changes I think Wisconsin's more important for other reasons by the way I I think you've taken a hit.
I think unions have taken a hit and I think it lays out the ground look for the future I think -- very much on the defensive.
And -- it if you lose this forthcoming election.
You in deep trouble.
About -- differ would -- that unions have taken a big hit.
Did -- there's a lot of battles going on this is a prolonged war and dozens of states.
And as I said the union folks after Ohio when they want a resounding victory just a few months ago in -- state double the size of Wisconsin and much more diverse.
Don't get -- you're gonna win some you lose some Wisconsin was -- -- -- -- out liar I think.
Because it wasn't straight up or down referendum like Ohio was and whether you want anti union legislation and so it was a referendum on the governor.
Begin to personalities have a lot of pro labor people who didn't want the referendum wouldn't -- -- governor removed.
Over policy differences so I don't think Wisconsin was as much a blow as some people like you would like to think on -- got.
Going to help -- -- really got to admit -- I mean it it was a proxy for this unions and also collective bargaining more specifically looks like this collective bargaining.
Is in trouble we've -- -- we've heard from people of Wisconsin money pouring up from both sides all over the country and also we've heard from the Supreme Court.
Collective bargaining seems to be the piece that's in deep deep jeopardy.
You mean for -- public employees yes.
Bomb I don't know if people again and Ohio when there was a straight vote and it wasn't personalities who wasn't removing a governor.
And and incidentally when one side -- announcement the other about six to one with -- out of state money is as a governor in Wisconsin was able to do.
Kasich was the governor Republican governor of I was -- a resounding blow and similar issues so I don't think this was a harbinger as I said.
On this show months ago I didn't think Ohio is a positive harbinger of anything else to come for labor.
I don't think Wisconsin's a negative each state is different and we'll see what happens elsewhere.
I just feel you kind of on the defensively you know you'll usual ebullient self you have you've failed totally to attack me filled on I'm really shocked at that I think you're losing the argument you got like ten seconds -- Well all I can say is read you through me when you couldn't find beyond.
-- That was good that was very good indeed if part of build -- I know who you off had a way to find -- thanks so much for joining us appreciate it if you.
