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-- flying -- historically in Wisconsin governor Scott Walker keeps his job.
After a massive recall challenge that span -- -- depending on how you look at it millions of dollars over the last several months.
Walker is the first US governor in history.
As a -- recall effort.
Labor groups put more than six million dollars into the fight against the Republican governor so what this all mean for unions going forward disaster.
-- to disagree with me dying top union advocate and author state of the unions.
I can't wait to hear you spin this one -- because it looks like a disaster to meet -- is not a disaster.
I didn't say it wasn't the disaster clearly -- it's clearly -- sudden -- you're you're not entirely wrong.
It's clearly a setback for labor and it's clearly a victory for conservatives.
I would say however what I said a few months ago when I was in the same network fox.
After John -- the governor -- Ohio lost.
In his bid to 22 decimate unions in Ohio.
He Lawson at that point I said labor should not get giddy about this.
Because this is one battle in a long war and I would say the same here.
This is a setback for labor but let's put in perspective it's one loss in a in a war that's taking place in dozens of states around the country.
Yet you know the war was -- elsewhere in the country yesterday as well I mean there was that other vote in California.
About cutting pensions in two cities -- and those were won by overwhelming margins and as well.
In San Diego San Jose -- sixty and 70% in those areas they vote to cut those pensions because cities just can't afford it anymore that's a vote against unions as well.
Yeah that is look there's a lot of states that have considered this Michigan Arizona a lot of states a lot of -- legislature -- is.
That have drawn back from the brink because -- governor of Michigan they don't want to take on organized labor and they did that after organized labor one in Ohio.
So which which are in my -- is a much bigger state than Wisconsin about three times as large.
So again let's not overestimate the significance of this is one loss of the same time.
This this situation -- in Wisconsin helped revitalize and help reenergize and help mobilize and unify the labor movement.
It's seek re energizing force of this -- I mean when you see interviews with individual people in Wisconsin especially.
-- -- people who -- the union the State's second largest union in one month lost more than half of its members when they had to go ahead and elect to have the money taken out of their paychecks.
And a lot of union members that I I -- like the union but it sure looks like they're powerless so what's the point of belonging any anymore than.
They're now well first of all that's what Governor Walker would have liked to have happened would -- a lot of people like to make no -- -- belong to a union take -- bargaining rights.
But would you just -- is not what happened.
Union membership -- -- dip largely because the state employee workforce.
Dipped to its not like people left the unions its like.
Jobs left the state.
No they actually the payrolls went up in the state he added jobs there were more jobs that that was the excuse that.
A lot of people are clinging to the that's not the case -- union lost 34000 members.
I'd like to know what percentage they lost.
More than half that it it -- around 53% and that union.
And it asks me hey you know that -- of ultimate yes they.
-- -- journal.
Well -- that I guess it's gospel right.
-- this -- a -- numbers.
I I I know what's up with the union membership it's going up it's going down it's not -- proportionally what's happened is.
Jobs of -- the state not not private sect run up -- Governor -- I'm saying because of the crisis.
And municipalities are laying off workers we -- it all the time.
-- police fire cages are being laid off.
You know people say that this shows that this and -- relationship between union representatives in government representatives.
This relationship that has gone on for a long time where unions have put a lot of money into the campaigns for public workers that they've -- You don't got elected to office and it sort of there's been -- given take back and forth that this may finally be broken now what do you think about that.
Well yeah I do think there is some merit to the argument that there is a symbiotic relationship but I would say this Wisconsin was not about the money.
Nothing to do with the money.
And the -- -- that is that -- Governor Walker did not mention anything about collective bargaining during his months long campaign for.
Governor this was a complete.
Post election surprise secondly the unions very quickly -- to all his financial demands and he said no.
He said I don't care about the money I don't care that you -- willing to reduce your pay your pensions your benefits.
I want to get rid of collective bargaining at this tidbit about the money he -- done what Christie did in.
Connect what Krista did New Jersey what the governor of of of of Connecticut -- what governors around the country did they bargain with the unions he didn't fight with the unions he fought against the unions because he wants to destroy them.
Right so what's wrong with that mean I think you would agree with that.
Because then he should have run that on the campaign I wanted to rid of unions he didn't do that because he would no one.
I don't know not a joke it's not his job as governor to decide whether folks can belong to a union it is his job as governor to balance -- budget and the union's right away agreed to every single one of this financial demands and he said no.
About -- -- have to debate that next time that Philip Dodd thank you so much for coming on and and definitely disagreeing with me.
My pleasure good to be where there -- eight.
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