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Continue now with my interview with former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.
One of the things that -- talked about in your last tour as its Defense Secretary.
Was to have a leaner and meaner military.
One of the things there's a couple of areas don't wanna ask you about -- one of them is cyber warfare.
And again the news this past week has been about the fact that there had been software.
Malfunctions in the Iran nuclear program again.
A lot of people reporting to autos or or Israel of course.
Is this is there a cyber war underway right now.
That the the Chinese are active in cyber attacks -- Russians are active in server attacks.
There are hackers who get engaged in in mischief for various types.
We as a free people of course are the most vulnerable.
We are the most advanced and therefore the most dependent on digits.
We've all thrown away or shoe boxes with the three by five cards -- those nice little old IBM punch card -- -- -- -- actually you know exactly and -- it's now digits and and the vulnerability of a country that's dependent on that.
Is greater than a country that that is less advanced are you worried about or indeed -- cyber attack here -- on absolutely.
I mean think of the dependency we have on the power.
If -- just that simple example when Katrina hit and in Louisiana.
If you don't have electricity can't get -- of the -- -- -- -- So here you have people trying to flee.
Treat people trying to bring ambulances and people trying to big fire trucks and trying to rescue people trying to be helpful and you cannot get -- Think of the power -- the prior to two.
People talking about in predicting the fact that terrorists some -- would find their way to -- shoreline.
They would end it happened.
And that I ask you now about the cyber warfare you go certainly.
This is something that you.
That this isn't a question your mind we are going to be hit by terrorists in a cyber way.
Oh there's I don't doubt it for a minute.
There there's never been a an advance in advance that hasn't been used to the disadvantage of somebody.
I mean that you think about the surface of the -- the land the subsurface.
The air space.
That that area where we have the least capabilities since in the cyber world we're we're not as advanced we don't have rules of the road we don't understand.
Precisely what an -- Of what -- -- war like act is in the cyber world -- is it mischief is -- gaining information is -- causing confusion is a crippling.
Is it costing lives there and it's somewhere in there as an act as cyber act -- and -- adverse to another country.
Constitutes an act of war but but unlike every other medium we really haven't.
Fashioned -- AES rules are rules or discipline or guidebook.
And it -- worried well I think -- people ought to worry about.
It it is it is there it's it's it's happening it to other countries that happens to us.
And there are things that take place that that we are undoubtedly aren't even aware of yet in terms of accessing information.
-- back to the the idea about a leaner meaner military for the United States.
New York Times had a story this past week about the fact that the president has a kill list.
And I'll go back again to your early days where Lyndon Johnson was picking bombing sites in Vietnam.
Shades of the same thing.
It is I don't recommend.
I think -- -- president is in a different role.
And it seems to me that those are military and an agency.
Actions that need to be done.
The killing killing somebody there's there's a time to kill somebody and I fully support.
The president's decision to kill Osama bin Laden.
-- the other hand.
There are plenty of people that we'd rather not killed that we'd rather find out information from.
And we have gained have major fraction of our according to the last three or four.
-- CIA directors.
Who have reason -- We've gained a large fraction of what we know about al-Qaeda and terrorist networks.
From interrogating people.
And in the case of Osama bin Laden the attack clearly was able to gather evidence -- they just fired a cruise missile and it would not have been able to gather the kinds -- information and evidence and and day intelligence that they've they've been able to do so there there are times to do one and there are times to do the other but.
I think that it be a president needs to decide directional -- where the country's gonna go.
And that I think -- strategies fashion and then it's implemented by.
Military people -- their fingers on the trigger.
Or use supportive of the idea of the drones because again that's just that.
Leaner meaner out there are -- -- much cheaper than running airplanes or helicopters.
And it's a lot safer for the people who would be flying the manned aircraft carrier and there's no question that.
What during the Bush Administration we dramatically increase the number of drone from the capabilities of the Chrome -- the kill capabilities of -- then back in those early days they.
What was left from the Clinton eight years was was -- hollowed out intelligence community and hollowed out military.
And over a period of time we were able to dramatically increase our special forces strengthen our intelligence community.
Increase the number of drones and -- authorities to the special operating.
Forces to the point where today -- without question the finest warriors on the face -- the year.
Do you see that as the future warfare of these small.
The seal teams that -- instead of sending in 1020500000.
Its -- It's likely.
-- not certain.
The -- George Washington and I guess Kuwait has and I are both said it's peace through strength if you wanna.
Deter someone you have the capability to prevail in the conflict -- that prevents people from thinking you're weak.
That the goal obviously is to not have a war and the way to not terrible war -- to be sufficiently strong.
Which is is I think enormously important for our country.
Because -- look at what's happening in Western Europe that are cutting their defense budget they don't have the kinds of capabilities they used to have.
And and the United States has a very important role to play.
To the extent you're dealing with a terrorist network as opposed to a nation state.
A nation state what deters a nation state is the fact that they have real estate to defend they have up but people that they -- to -- not get killed.
So they they behave in a way that that protects them.
A terrorist network is determined to go out and kill innocent men women and to terrorize the purpose of terrorism isn't that.
Kill people -- to terrorize -- could Alter behavior -- And that means you're gonna have to use people like our special operating forces them and those kinds of capabilities if you're dealing with -- non state entities.
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