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To be fixed joining me now is former TSA administrator author of permanent emergency inside the TSA and the fight for the future of American security.
Kip Hawley end mr.
-- listen this the title of your book is great.
Is one of the things I learned.
Well got back when I was in the in the army I think they said you can never ever stay on a constant high alert it's impossible humans.
Can't do it forever so permanent emergency.
And needs to be changed yes what do you want -- what do you want to change because.
One of the things that that that I have in your book you're talking about guns or knives and -- Box cutters even.
Any any kind of thing like that -- when you fly first class now you get you get a nice deal fork and a knife.
Are we -- -- -- with those things.
We should we should.
Go back to that prohibited items listen I think you said it exactly right.
Right after 9/11 we wanted to make sure that no dangerous items got on planes well.
It is -- a year 234 now ten years have gone by and we have in place -- -- That will prevent anybody from using a weapon to take over an airplane so the the people in Coach couldn't to take a Coke cannon and twisted and turn it into -- thirteen inch.
Razor blade basically so.
You can make dangerous items out of everything and the cost to the economy the cost to the passengers and the cost to TSA.
Of going through each bag fishing out.
A long list of things that could be harmful is a waste of time we have other.
Things that cover the the the cabin.
And we need to look at explosives -- -- -- -- guns you -- -- look at toxins and if we just focus on those it will speed -- the whole process and I think.
Lower the temperature of everybody involved.
Listen I'm I'm I'm kind of a libertarian on this issue about the fact that -- I want to start than that the the no security airline and see how many people come on board.
Why don't we switch this over to the airlines so that the customer service.
Extends all the way to the security so that they they want to keep their planes safe they want to keep their passengers happy why can't we let the airlines business.
Well that's an innovative solution and there's no.
Reason that says you can't do it that way you'd you'd want to make sure that it's good.
But I I I've seen airlines who have superb support security on their own and and would be able to handle it of course is money.
And you know whether airlines feel that they can afford batter make money doing I don't know but your point is well taken that we need to halve the real.
The real private sector with innovation in the security business not what we have today when they say private sector all their talking about.
Is personnel contracting.
Taking the TSA Lister procedures.
Handing it to -- people and then giving them a surcharge.
That to me that's not the private sector that are just.
That does that it's and it's a very good point does anybody share your views are you because once you put a government agency together.
How are you ever ain't gonna change it or be even do away within -- something completely new and radical and different.
Well our our personally would not do away with with TSA all I was saying for you -- that's an that's an innovative idea I hadn't given.
A lot of thought to news is worth pursuing I think you need to have a governmental entity for intelligence if nothing else.
And that that's where my my opinions and security works the best.
Is the intelligence community feeding live in floated TSA -- then shares it out.
With the airlines with transit systems with the other partners around the world.
That's a part of TSA that works extremely well.
And I've seen it get in the middle and break up terrorist plots so I I think -- that function is extremely useful.
But who actually does the physical security.
When you get to the airport is an open question and you could go a lot of different ways.
-- obviously you folks who talked about the fact that.
It is a terrorists dream to have a big crowd of people that they can attack.
And what do we have at the airports now is before you at the security gates you have a big crowd of people.
I always find it kind of interest in when they evacuated terminal because some security violation.
You have an even bigger crowd of people and it seems to me like it terrorists would be would be watching all of this.
Well that's true and and that and TSA in the airports have thought of that and they have.
Contingency plans that will.
Not be what terrorists expect and I I I can't really -- -- but it but that's something that.
You'll be -- inclined to know a lot of thought has gone into.
The old bombs scare and then push always people too predictable place where you then have a secondary or tertiary explosion.
To get down there there are other ways to do it that are in the plans today are art.
-- the way we do it today though are you saying that this is actually -- -- -- or.
Diminishing our security because of the fact that we have this Easter -- egg hunt -- mentality.
Yes I think what it's done is driven that -- the pat down in and just today atmosphere now.
Is driven the public away so that it's it's -- a rift.
And neither side really is communicating with the other and and and I look at is -- where.
The Israeli public in the Israeli security these services are as one.
And that provides a tremendous amount of security just by itself so right now it's gotten to the point United States where this division and and and almost disrespect.
Is harmful and I think of the fastest way to get to change that.
Is to eliminate a lot of the unneeded things that are happening now.
And then get the American public back on side and then we can do some of these innovative things such as where you're suggesting and I'm sure there -- -- I applaud you for for your -- thinking.
Innovative -- it needs to be done in the in this particular around what others suggestions do you have for changing -- said.
Well the job.
The whole set up is regulatory based which is writing down -- -- rules and and enforcing them.
Which is great if you got a mechanical -- -- because and you go make sure all screws -- are on tight.
But for terrorists they get your list and then they figure out a way to go do an attack does not on your list.
So I think that the underpinning of regulatory mentality is flawed.
For security -- the enemy is always moving we need something.
There's always moving ourselves and not just putting bricks in the wall one after the other the other.
So that that's the fundamental change and that will take more than -- a couple of weeks that's gonna.
That's a fundamental different approach to security -- but I applaud you for -- you know I'm.
I'm in the choir for you there mister hall well I don't thank -- -- -- the book firmer -- -- emergency care Polly thank you very much for joining us.