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And at the Supreme Court showdown centering on the individual mandate.
Our next guest says that provision is unconstitutional.
And an overreach of congressional power.
And he was in the front row for the arguments today filing an abacus brief in support of the 26 states are bringing the case joining us now Virginia attorney general and birch and Alec.
Good to have you -- -- and an excellent well let's start with a little.
We'll -- a lot discussion of remain because -- -- over this.
This but that's despite -- bad self I found it fascinating.
Justice Kennedy set at one point to the solicitor John.
The president's attorney of this case could you help me -- this.
Assume for the moment and you may disagree but a certain for the moment that Justice Kennedy that this is unprecedented that this.
Is a step.
Are beyond what our cases have allowed the affirmative duty to act to go -- all -- If that is so do you not have a heavy burden of justification.
What do you make of that.
Well first of all.
I think there's at least a decent chance that while he phrase it as a hypothetical for the solicitor general.
To make it easier for him to answer without having to get into the base assumptions.
I don't think it's unreasonable to think there's a good chance Justice Kennedy in fact.
Harbors such a a belief and and that what he -- as -- hypothetical as where he started.
It that's just more likely than not because I'm a litigator myself for -- was before it became attorney general.
And you gotta be cautious drawing too many conclusions.
From what you see there but remember we think in terms of burdens of proof and there's a technical burden.
That the United States has -- they have to appeal they lost in the eleventh circuit.
But there's also a burden of persuasion.
You've got to convince the judges of your case just as a human matter not as a John at a statistical matter.
To what degree do you think because I mean for crack a -- we've got an entire day devoted to India.
The anti injunction act -- -- that's more than a hundred years -- And we know very well that -- how they have decided that they would have -- this whole I mean no one was to try to shop for three days.
For them to decide that they didn't have standing heard that wasn't right but what are the phrases you wanna use.
They meant to do business here.
So well they they they wouldn't reach that.
How they feel like -- goes so they hear it all they brief at all they won't just decide one -- say now never -- -- we -- -- well I'm just saying entry as a layman.
We -- -- what about the law.
That in -- and our country boy can kind of figure out that that first day was pretty well piped in.
In the second part of it is the issue of I mean it -- and getting right down to a if you decide that the congress in the United States you're sitting there -- justice of the supreme right.
Can use the commerce cost order people to buy a product in the private market.
The federal government just took over the nation.
Well and in several justices alluded to that in and let's face it the major challenge the federal government had walking into court today.
The major challenge is overcome -- -- they have not overcome in any court to date.
In any of the cases running across the country and that is to articulate.
A clear constitutional.
As acceptable you know so that you can mandate individuals.
To deal with the health -- can -- -- armor but it doesn't even that doesn't effect but that doesn't affect anything else in the market.
And they never convincingly.
Address that the solicitor general gave two responses one.
You can incur.
The heavy health care costs on an unpredictable basis Justice Alito frankly rather humorously civil.
What do burial costs you get hit by bus -- -- possibly get hit by -- to -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- prepared -- -- the second.
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Of these hearings what is your judgment as to what the court -- it.
Well all four of these arguments are really separate they they don't overlap much I do think that -- your comments on the -- -- correct I think that it's unlikely.
The they're gonna bar the case because of the -- injunction acts -- that gets us to the merits.
And the big part of that was today.
The mandate and I think.
Just judging by what I saw in the courtroom today.
-- right now there -- five votes to overturn the mandate and maybe more but.
Just judging by today tomorrow we're gonna talk about remedy and we're gonna hear about another basis the macro.
To throw the the bill out the Medicaid coercion.
Element which would is somewhat novel.
But nonetheless terribly important for those of us and state government because the Medicaid burden on on Virginia alone.
Is almost two billion dollars in the next ten years so that's an enormous hole in our budget.
Absolutely and Obama clearly is all of this is video and -- -- please.
What's that hole over -- right ten years or one point seven trillion dollars and we know based on experience that that's probably an understatement.
Think -- tonight we thank you for being with -- -- thanks -- -- to be doing it one of the country's finest.