You're watching...
Authors Steven Brill and Ben Chavis argue charter schools are answer to the problems plaguing America’s public-school system.
Also in this playlist...
Auto-advance: ON
Auto-advance
This transcript is automatically generated
-- created the model they Fowler wrote a book about his experience titled crazy like a fox.
-- real as a serial entrepreneur -- He created court TV some magazines and now he's written a book about education class warfare inside the fight to fix America's schools so.
Steve your book says that what America needs is now a grand bargain -- if the unions.
But I can't believe that because the unions.
Don't want any change were to fire any teachers.
I think you -- thousand year of research for your book.
Well and certainly ever accuse -- -- that I think what we need is a grand bargain with teachers.
There -- 3.2.
Million public school teachers in this country and it's the only workplace where.
We don't take performance into account as you have as you've document.
The only way to fix although our place where we don't -- performance into account mean it's that are better teacher gets not fun.
The only thing that counts is how long you've been breathing.
And that's what the seniority system hasn't and that's -- the tenure system -- of but how do you change that without going outside the -- you have to bend the union and and terra -- I may have been the unions I didn't think -- been.
This stiff as a board.
-- -- and unsentimental how you tried.
Listen I'm I don't wanna be here -- a defender of of any union contract that exists today what you have to do is take the union contract and carried out.
And do a new -- there are lots and lots of teachers who care.
And there are lots and lots of teachers who are embarrassed by the ridiculous positions the union takes and those of the -- you have to reach.
And those of the teachers who have to become the leadership of those unions then -- and if.
You schools worried about what He said it sounds like you've -- that He would want to negotiate with the -- I don't how you can negotiate with these people.
I've never met a union members he's talking about.
They hate competition they hate us.
Meaning charter schools I don't know any union -- supports charter schools I don't know any union members.
As a matter of fact I'm never they will come and visit your school would have talk about -- they don't want us to be able compete they don't want my kids for example if you're an Oakland.
If you're charter school they don't want you to be funded the same as the public schools where funded 67000 dollars or less and they say that's okay.
There are only concerned with himself they have no interest in kids the union has been around -- ever.
And they have they have no record a show and -- kids.
Well.
I -- documents exactly everything -- princess so I don't disagree with the word of it except the first sentence but I'm saying is that.
There is certain that a union -- there is a union leader in Tampa Florida Hillsborough County who actually is a reformer.
What we're gonna have a union leader -- on this show later who's now -- -- a charter school there you go so you wouldn't wanna say he's disqualified.
Because He wants ring in the -- You wouldn't wanna say that this you know but I wouldn't wanna stay and can't enforce your union rules -- -- right they view we have noticed you said that Randi Weingarten the head of the biggest union.
Maybe ought to run the New York school I said was that's it very carefully that if -- -- under the thumb.
Of the mayor who's used to keeping his subordinates under his -- why would you even pulled a union leader who has stopped teachers from being fired so the ultimate Nixon to China -- -- I wouldn't given the latitude to do what she wants it's a aren't here are the policies.
We're gonna have accountability.
You agree on Wednesday policy for our own ability means fiery teacher if you think they're not doing a good apple -- -- -- -- instantly -- it's totally a lot general also.
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- I don't know the union he's talking about I've never met him and maybe if she is in charge of new York public school system.
A scary to me she's only interested in protect and teachers.
You know the old union bosses I like him -- think this guys were right up front we only care about the teachers we have no interest in the kids kids don't pay dues.
Of these guys.
No I do prefer the -- over these union guys -- -- you know why.
I know I stand of those guys these guys they lied to you they say where about the kids always wondered was helped the kids don't care about the -- Active I mean -- that's thanks to hear that the effect is there and I can't believe I'm sitting in defending union only only on your show up at the end.
This sort of say we need -- is that if you go to Pittsburgh today.
Or Tampa Florida you have the unions that have implemented.
Exactly the kind of reforms were talking.
Really is don't get you know the tell you where I bet the -- they do not after -- very brief hearing they're going to.
You know no more no less of the hearing and -- -- Fox News we get if they weren't performing.
Seriously I'll have to go He doesn't -- -- -- this then I gave Steve a hard time about stuff let me give you a hard time a little bit.
Some say we shouldn't have view on this show this you are so politically incorrect and we did taped him saying some things that would make.
My neighbors around here in New York say.
Who He can't say that.
Just.
-- -- -- -- So in the -- your system -- you -- here around here He would be toasting yet you've got this enormous success.
They've.
I'm honest with them.
And she would be a rare bird I got six kids who attending UC Davis this year all on in the engine in the engineering department not -- ethnic studies department.
Six minority kids there and engineering there are rare Baird's and they're they're very successful and they're going to be successful but of course you know -- I just say it the way I see it in your purpose in saying we have to -- his -- telling the truth.
Because she's gonna be here and stuff like that -- -- hear from you she I'm going to I'm going to when she here hears someone say something negative to she's gonna -- She's gonna say you should -- heard what my principles that in high school.
And we showed earlier the unions saying we shouldn't have all the standardized testing it doesn't really major learning.
You have a different opinion well I think if you do away with standardized testing you should do away with scoring in basketball scoring and football.
Our track.
You know.
You know you've entered into to make her faster you could always makes a big hit I know I'm kidding you know I went to college and attract scholarship know that from what I've gotten out if I hadn't been so I'm -- for testing.
Suggesting its objective and the reason the union is against testing as they don't wanna be held accountable as we all know.
What we love the have a job where there's no accountability.
And you're giving your kids like tests they love it they don't like it.
They love it beat.
They love to come to school and show what they've learned it's like -- a basketball game kids love the night of the basketball game because they're gonna get a shell.
All of their hard work it's gonna be displayed.
That's what my kids love testing my kids have the highest SAT scores and Oakland and Steve you seven charter schools I visited the impressive -- the kids are excited about learning that you arguing your book that these teachers are gonna burn out and I asked some charter teachers about.
But you're gonna burn watch -- -- Off that's not -- Democrats because we kind of have our high and the prize with these kids and when you see the results that we're getting it's it's hard to be ticked off by.
I mean.
I can see that's what they say they're enthusiastic but I don't know how long they'll be enthusiastic listen what I -- in doing my reporting intent and I'd love those teachers I was interviewing is.
That.
You know they would do it for two or three or four years but then.
You know ultimately you know when they get to be your age -- my -- or even a little bit younger.
If -- answering.
Yourself on which are required to do going on 24/7 with the pattern holds a -- -- has expressed hope that the student -- would hope -- I don't have kids and you start to do this for five to six or eight years.
That becomes a front you have to be realistic of it that you have to change we're not be a real.
Stick asking these teachers to work this hard a totally disagree -- It's like people play golf they love -- play golf -- teachers I was at the school this morning at 430 before I came here I think it's flight San Francisco as a school.
And you know that when I was leaving there was a teacher coming in at six they love it.
-- they'll burn out.
Did -- golfers burnout when teachers coming to our school the first hired they said we've heard all these crazy things together to start working in those kids they love it.
I mean we got a waiting list now for kids we got a waiting -- for teachers people want to work -- us because they know they're gonna change people's lives teachers work a 180 days a year.
Which is less than half the year.
-- the summer -- -- have summer every holiday holiday known to mankind we have off.
So I don't know how you gonna burn us out and -- 180 days when there's 365.
Days we have a better vacation planned and you did this book.
