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Rochester Institute of Technology Professor Ron Hira on the myths that the U.S. is in need of more computer professionals and engineers.
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-- ago I told you how IBM will soon have more employees in India.
And in the United States if they don't already we're not sure exactly because IBM stopped disclosing its US headcount about two years ago.
But IBM is not alone the biggest in a blue list of America's companies are doing the same thing and it's not stopping can we reverse that trend.
Joining me now another person who should be on the president's jobs female who isn't run here at associate professor of public policy at the Rochester Institute of Technology.
Ron welcome to the show great to have you here.
Thanks for having me on -- -- you we we keep hearing from elected officials and others.
That we don't have enough scientists we don't have enough engineers in this country is that true.
No not in a Broadway it's not true and factors.
At the 2010 there are 300000.
Unemployed.
Computer scientists and engineers.
And their unemployment rates are about two to three times.
What we would expect -- full employment on fact.
They are mired in a jobs recession just like us.
It is true and very narrow fields for example like petroleum engineering.
But we -- seeing a response there where students have gone enrollments have gone up to -- have gone up in petroleum engineers.
It engineering and it's being filled by American Steve.
Well when you look at unemployment in those fields computers -- Five point 4% unemployment rate engineers 54 point 5% unemployment rate does that tell -- story -- Yet does so for computer professionals that should be about to 2% or so is what we would expect a full employment.
-- -- about two and a half times the amount of unemployment we would expect.
In the case of engineers they're generally about one.
Point 5% unemployment rate now there at four and a half percent to their three times the unemployment rate.
That we would expect.
Are those are numbers you never hear.
I you know critics say that we have to open the door to immigration completely.
Because otherwise the next Google the -- that Cisco -- even be founded on our shores are they right.
I think they're misleading you what we need to do is have a selective immigration policy I'm in favor of high -- immigration.
Having worked in universities having worked in research institutes.
Immigrants play a very important role.
But what we need to do is be very selective about him right now what we're doing is bringing in cheaper guest workers who are basically indentured servants.
And so what you have are employers pushing for those kinds of programs where they can bring in lower cost workers.
And in some cases actually force their American workers to train foreign replacement.
In fact you say the H one B program and needs to be reformed and mightily because it's being exploited.
By companies who just want cheap workers at the end of the day.
That's right.
It's not just the H one B program but it's also the L-1 program to be like there's a whole alphabet soup of these guest worker programs.
And the key here is that the employer holds the Visa.
And so if the worker you know complaints -- guest worker who foreign worker comes in complaints.
If they get laid off their out of status they have to leave right away up plus.
Employers can legally.
By law can pay below market wages in the case of the L-1 you can pay home country wages and just to give you an example.
In India you can hire -- an engineer for about 101000 dollars a year.
If you could pay 101000 dollars a year for an engineer here in the US you pay them housing allowance and everything else are you can imagine the kind of wage arbitrage you can play.
You're very big difference I mean it it just really it doesn't compare.
Only if you this though I get the impression -- that American executives think Americans are just too stupid at least that's what they say publicly.
Listen to Brad Smith Microsoft General Counsel.
He says the unemployment problem in the US is also -- skills problem.
We're just not smart enough.
True.
There's no support for that I think it's a good talking point for the employers is an effective one for some reason because.
People don't actually look at the data.
There's plenty of skilled workers chasing too few jobs.
And this is it you know with any of objective data any objective analyst who is looked -- it whether you look at employment rate unemployment rates.
The jolt survey from be a last or if He actually talked to scientists and engineers which I do.
Quite frequently.
They're really just aren't enough jobs out there.
Right we took a close look at the president's jobs panel.
And I have to tell -- Iran what we've found is that so many of the companies represented on that panel.
Have been shipping jobs overseas willing how they're gonna tell us how to create jobs in America I have no idea because that's not what they're doing.
Yeah that's absolutely right I mean so what -- Obama put together the panel you know we it was fait accompli we already knew what they were gonna say which is that.
Offshoring is good and that that that they're doing good things.
For America but we should be surprised the number two economic advisor in the Obama administration up until recently was Diana -- For McKinsey Global Institute.
So she was Larry Summers deputy she's the biggest evangelists of offshoring when she was at McKinsey she wrote the book on offshoring.
Aren't shouldn't be surprised that Obama has actually been promoting offshoring are -- through this -- I'm gonna go back we're gonna have to leave it there I'm afraid we're running out of time pleasure having you -- interesting stuff -- me -- thanks so much for being with us.
