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Elijah Cummings held a forum today on the fast and furious ATF operation.
Which allowed thousands of weapons there be smuggled across the Mexican border and into the hands of the drug cartels.
Cummings is steering the scandal toward issues -- Gun control.
These reforms are essential to help law enforcement to stop guns.
From getting into the hands of the world's most dangerous.
Prosecutors and law enforcement agents.
Should not have to bend over backward.
To imprison those.
Who provide -- -- military grade weapons to merge.
Our next guest doesn't believe gun control laws are the problem he sends the bureau of alcohol tobacco firearms is trying to fire him.
After -- helped uncover the agency's role in operation fast and furious joining us now from Reno Nevada.
Then shuffle -- and ATF agent Tony four years with the bureau and fired at the end of last week.
Whistle blower on the fast and furious operation.
Myths and good to have you -- the sure we're dobbs tonight.
But let's start with first.
Whistle blowers are supposed to be fired -- I think.
No further or not they're not suppose to be retaliated against any form or fashion so where is the inspector general.
Where is the attorney general one of the world is going on in that bureau and in that department.
And you know I can't speak for their department.
Specifically I can say the system is flawed the projections are not there and there there are no mechanisms for people like agent Dobson and myself and -- has and those who've.
Come forward such as agent dobbins.
Jerry -- agent Gary dobbins all sort of whistle -- not fired we should point out -- this point.
Why do you think for it was what two days after.
The I say hearings in Washington DC the the the principal hearing on Wednesday.
Why why would why that timing was -- because of the hearing do you believe.
I don't know specifically because of the hearing but the timing is is clear that they.
Are wanting to send a message.
There is no chilling -- it does no good terror retaliated against a whistle blower if you're not gonna get.
Some of blacked out of it and in terms of shutting other people out.
Well and that is apparently the the intent of this firing.
To stop any other agents who have even -- the remotest idea of stepping forward although a number of already support his whistle blowers.
Bob how you it's going to be.
What's critical now is what.
Our congress when I said those what senator Chuck Grassley goes about your firing.
Our -- inspector general dogs and this is.
As far as I know it's unprecedented.
-- that this would happen however and then immediately in the throes.
Of a full -- investigation and congressional hearings this is a straight in their face gesture.
-- by ATF and the Justice Department as.
-- desperate people lack desperately mr.
-- I mean it's that simple.
And the embassy said in and whatever the panic is -- we're getting reports suggestions that this.
This may go all the way -- justice to seniors senior officials what is your view about who had to know about operation fast and furious.
Who and who had to chart problem.
-- I'm absolutely convinced.
Did that Justice Department no one and acting director and -- malice and position in based on his previous performance as our acting director.
Would never make a decision like this without.
Layers of approval.
And for it to eight to cross international lines like this to affect another country.
And and put them in harm's way like that there's -- no way this was not that.
-- -- in the -- department if not approved.
And and as you point out.
This operation with a -- another nation.
Any foreign nation where foreign nationals.
Ever risk as a result of this operation.
It's almost inconceivable that the Justice Department and I'm talking about senior officials would know about it.
State Department officials would either one would assume no about it.
One even imagined that the political office in the White House.
Might well know about it so for the suggestion that the president came right out and said.
You he stood up for the attorney general in his press conference yesterday when asked about it.
Saying that they -- he knows Eric Holder definitely would never approve of such an operation.
It was a particularly.
Interest thing blanket defense if you will of his attorney general what is next for you -- Continue to be an ATF agent.
And continue to enforce federal -- laws to best liability until such time as you.
Mean my family decide -- to retire.
The proposal true two.
To be removed that was put forward to you by your superiors.
What is -- next step in that process.
It's obviously now -- far.
-- -- well they tried that once before.
A lot when I was out on a job related injury that didn't work out so well either bomb again I had.
I've been blowing the whistle since 2005.
-- just blew harder when Brian Terry was killed.
-- myself out of a job apparently.
I don't know what's next mr.
Morning wrote whatever is -- we wish you the very best and we thank you for stepping forward -- talked and written.
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